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O

OBS

Engineer
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
2,220
Location
Webster NY
Due to the recent article in PTJ regarding possible discontinuance of these train services, My family has expressed an interest in possibly riding this fall. Does anyone have RECENT experience with riding? I'm looking for amenities available other than the typical coach. IE is there any dome service still, and what exactly is situation for dining/lounge services. Exploring going all the way to Moosenee (sp)...

TIA
 
My wife and I rode both the Northlander and the Polar Bear Express in 2010. The former uses rebuilt GO Transit single level cars from the 1960s. The coaches are configured long distance style with low density /generous pitch seating. They are clean and comfortable, but rough riding due to their light weight. The train carries a café lounge car with a better selection of pre-packaged food than either Amtrak cafes or VIA trolleys, including at least a couple of full meal selections. The lounge also is equipped to show videos.

The Polar Bear Express operates with similar equipment throughout the year, except that the coaches may include ex-CNR smooth sided cars from the 1950s. From late June to the end of August the train carries additional cars for the tourist season, and includes a full length dome, two dining cars and an entertainment car. Breakfast in the diner was very good, and the dinner was OK but not outstanding. The choices included roast beef, chicken breast and fish.

As far as I know the summer amenities on the Polar Bear Express have not changed as a result of the announced scale of ONTC.

The Polar Bear Express is a remote service and the majority of its quite extensive local traffic is aboriginal (Cree first nation, i.e. Canadian terminology for Native American). The equipment looks well used, to put it mildly, but generally clean and adequately maintained. Since Moosonne is not accessible by road, the train provides a car ferry service.

The heyday of excursion traffic to Moosonee was several decades ago, though there was still quite a bit of tourist traffic on the train two years ago. But at least half of the passengers were locals on our July trip.

Moosonne itself is an authentic frontier town. Apart from a native craft shop in the basement of a local church, there are few concessions to the tourist traffic. The main street has a Northern store (the name of the former Hudson's Bay Company trading posts), which sells just about everything at prices that are considerably higher than in the south. You can take a canoe ferry to Moose Factory, which is on an island in the middle of the Moose River, and is a Cree reserve. Moose factory is the name of the former Hudson’s Bay Company trading post, dating from the 18th century and now restored as a museum. There is also a hospital there, a former TB sanitarium, now the regional health centre for the James Bay area. The first nation people run a good Eco Lodge on the shore of the river, but being on an Indian reserve the dining room is dry. You can take an excursion by canoe nine miles downstream to the mouth of Moose River and see the expanse of James Bay/Hudson Bay.

Regarding the future of the trains themselves, the Ontario Government announced it plans to privatize the ONTC in its budget this spring. The announcement anticipated that the Northlander would be discontinued once the railway was sold, while the parallel bus service was to be beefed up by the as-yet-to-be-determined private operator. The announcement also stated that the Polar Bear Express would continue as a remote service.

We shall see what transpires. It is by no means clear how attractive the ONR Rail assets would be, and bus services are being discontinued throughout Canada. Currently there are four daily ON busses form Toronto to Cochrane as compared to one daily train.

Finally, the ONR runs a small hotel called the Station Inn at Cochrane. This is the most convenient place to stay for the overnight stopover, but unit fills up quickly in summer. There are a number of other motels on the Trans Canada Highway a couple of miles taxi ride away from he ONR dept.
 
Here's a couple of shots of the Northlander. It's south of North Bay at Huntsville and running on CN.

(Note: VIA has no involvement in the operation of the Northlander)

DSC01233.JPG


DSC01230.JPG
 
Further to my previous message, there have been a couple of videos of the summer 2012 edition of the Polar Bear Express on U Tube. The dome car and the entertainment car (a former CN/VIA café lounger) are running the traditional dining cars are missing. Instead there appears to be an ex-GO café lounge of the type used on the Northlander. Therefore it appears that sit down meal service is not available this year. The consists are also shorter than in the past.

Compared to the past practice, the website is minimalist with respect to promotion for the Polar Bear. Previously there was an attractive PDF brochure available to download listing several package tour deals. This year the only reference to the summer amenities on the train is buried in a link entitled “Group Travel”. It does mention a dining car, but that does not necessarily imply full meal service, since the ONR website has regularly referred to the café lounge on the Northlander as a “dining car”.
 
Guest said:
Further to my previous message, there have been a couple of videos of the summer 2012 edition of the Polar Bear Express on U Tube. The dome car and the entertainment car (a former CN/VIA café lounger) are running the traditional dining cars are missing. Instead there appears to be an ex-GO café lounge of the type used on the Northlander. Therefore it appears that sit down meal service is not available this year. The consists are also shorter than in the past.

Compared to the past practice, the website is minimalist with respect to promotion for the Polar Bear. Previously there was an attractive PDF brochure available to download listing several package tour deals. This year the only reference to the summer amenities on the train is buried in a link entitled "Group Travel". It does mention a dining car, but that does not necessarily imply full meal service, since the ONR website has regularly referred to the café lounge on the Northlander as a "dining car".
Click to expand...
Thanks again; When I had originally looked at website a couple weeks ago, I noticed an apparent lack of info regarding services...
 
Ah, crap. Well, let's see if I can somehow jam a trip in.

Yes, this is one of the very few instances where I will seriously consider flying somewhere.

Edit: Alright, the one time I can make it up is going to be the class after the first midterm. This is a really tough call, but my gut says that I'll regret missing out on a route more than I will regret missing a class.
 
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I did the Toronto-Cochrane round trip last weekend. Cool scenery, long ride, and the best bet for dinner in Cochrane was a decent Chinese place down the street. The train was a little bit late, and being Sunday evening, other places (including the restaurant in the station) were closed. The Station Inn was adequate and convenient, as mentioned, though a little expensive for what you get. There's a Best Western across the street that was even more expensive, but just as convenient.
 
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Anthony said:
I did the Toronto-Cochrane round trip last weekend. Cool scenery, long ride, and the best bet for dinner in Cochrane was a decent Chinese place down the street. The train was a little bit late, and being Sunday evening, other places (including the restaurant in the station) were closed. The Station Inn was adequate and convenient, as mentioned, though a little expensive for what you get. There's a Best Western across the street that was even more expensive, but just as convenient.
Click to expand...
Anthony, thanks for the info...
 
Some cars have that red decor, and others are blue/grey. The seat cushions were a bit tired and not well fastened to the chair, and the cushion material kind of gave out after many hours of sitting. One can go sit in the cafe or choose a different seat if desired, I suppose.

Swadian Hardcore said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
The Northlander is to end on 28 Sept 2012. Get your last ride, and pictures while you can.
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Oh, no! More passengers trains getting discontinued! What will happen to the equipment?

Here's an interior shot, looks decently comfortable:

lrfMG7492110821-L.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Anthony said:
Some cars have that red decor, and others are blue/grey. The seat cushions were a bit tired and not well fastened to the chair, and the cushion material kind of gave out after many hours of sitting. One can go sit in the cafe or choose a different seat if desired, I suppose.
Click to expand...
Ontario's government in 2011 gave the ONR 10 million to refurbish cars for the Polar Bear Express. However in March 2012 it announced plan to dispose of the Northland - citing an unsustainable business model with annual funding up from $28 million in the early 2000s to $103 million in 2012.

Source: Passenger Train Journal Issue 251

I do wonder how much profit the Ontario provincial government make on there highway and roads.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
The Northlander is to end on 28 Sept 2012. Get your last ride, and pictures while you can.
Click to expand...
Oh, no! More passengers trains getting discontinued! What will happen to the equipment?

Here's an interior shot, looks decently comfortable:

lrfMG7492110821-L.jpg
Click to expand...
This is a former VIA "Day-Niter" Coach used on the Polar Bear Express and not regurally used on the Northlander. The Northlander uses rebuilt former GO Transit single-level commuter cars (see reply #3 above for photo)

.........And AFAIK the Polar Bear will continue to operate so the "Day-Niter" coaches probably won't be disposed off unless they are planning an equipment swap with the soon to be available Northlander fleet.
 
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I live in Moosonee and take the Polar Bear Express frequently.

Just a few updates.

This summer the amenities on the train were reduced, no children's program, no sit down dining car, second snack car only open three days per week and no entertainment car. The dome car is still carried but there nothing on the lower level.

The Cree Village Ecolodge in Moose Factory is not on reserve and the reserve where it is located is not a dry one (Indian reserves in Canada can vote on alcohol availability.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
NS VIA Fan said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Is this the interior of the Northlander? http://www.flickr.co...N05/7174112826/
Click to expand...
Yes.......that's the interior of a Northlander coach.
Click to expand...
OK, well, they still look pretty comfortable, at least compared to a commuter coach.
Click to expand...
They were indeed commuter coaches made for GO Transit by Hawker Siddeley (now Bombardier) in Thunder Bay. ONR upgraded them, not sure if the ride imporoved but in GO service they were not good riding. Some of these also went to Montreal as commuter coaches and were recently retired.

Tomorrow is the last day for the Northlander. The service to this part of Ontario has been devastated over the past 40 years by the Feds, now the Province is finishing it off. I'll remember who was responsible, next election.

Gord
 
Study says decision to discontinue Northlander was not warranted; supporters begin campaign to reverse the decision. From Facebook.

Supporters of The Northlander, ONR, ONTC, and the Provision of Better Passenger and Freight Rail Service in Northern Ontario.

As you are likely aware, the final report of the ONR-ONTC Research Task Force chaired by Dr. Barry Wellar is now posted on various websites, including Transport Action Ontario, Transport Action Canada, and Wellar Consulting Inc.
...
[Excerpt from of sample letter to officials]
I have read the reports prepared by Professor Barry Wellar regarding the decisions to terminate The Northlander, and to divest the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission. As you may be aware, all the reports prepared by Dr. Wellar on this topic are posted on the Transport Action Ontario, Transport Action Canada, and the Wellar Consulting Inc. websites (Transport Action Ontario, Transport Action Canada, and Wellar Consulting Inc. ).

In the final report Dr. Wellar concludes that there was no substantive basis for the decision to terminate The Northlander, or the decision to divest the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission and, as a result, both decisions should be rescinded immediately.
...

LINKS TO DR. WELLAR'S REPORTS
Wellar Consulting Inc.
http://www.wellar.ca/wellarconsulting/home.html
Transport Action Canada
http://www.transport-action.ca/en/index.html
ONR-ONTC Research Task Force
http://www.transport-action.ca/ontario/
Click to expand...
 

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