EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

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Hey, um, don't know if anyone knows about this, but apparently the Empire Builder is having some problems this summer. I just

learned about it on the Amtrak website. Fortunately, things will be cleared up by August 30! :giggle:

Empire Builder Trains 7, 27 and 807 and Trains 8, 28 and 808: Significant Delays Along the Route

Effective through August 30, 2012

Passengers traveling aboard the Empire Builder may experience delays of approximately two to five hours due to track work, speed restrictions caused by extreme heat conditions and other operating conditions along the route.

Passengers should plan for the possibility of a delay and contact Amtrak before heading to the station. The most up-to-date arrival and departure times are available on Amtrak.com, our free iPhone app and at 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak. We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience.
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A little more CANDID would be that if you don't have the app, prepare to be on hold at USA-RAIL. Till the busy summer season is over, they are queued up. They try to make it all seem so simple, but when you try to follow any instructions they give you, you get a reality check. Most parts of the system are gummed up. Not sure if its the mechanism experiencing entropy from long neglect or if the answer is more complicated. But I had what I thought would be a simple thing to do, namely, get a sleeping room or be denied, but I got to jump through hoops only to find myself in a callin queue with no idea how long it would be. After 20 minutes, I just gave up and settled for a coach seat.
 
RRUserious said:
A little more CANDID would be that if you don't have the app, prepare to be on hold at USA-RAIL. Till the busy summer season is over, they are queued up. They try to make it all seem so simple, but when you try to follow any instructions they give you, you get a reality check. Most parts of the system are gummed up. Not sure if its the mechanism experiencing entropy from long neglect or if the answer is more complicated. But I had what I thought would be a simple thing to do, namely, get a sleeping room or be denied, but I got to jump through hoops only to find myself in a callin queue with no idea how long it would be. After 20 minutes, I just gave up and settled for a coach seat.
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But in this service advisory, they're telling people to call the 800# to check train status, not to book seats. And unless there's a service disruption, the train

status on the phone is automated, meaning there are no wait times. Granted, when they turn the train at SPK that triggers a "service disruption" for the rest

of the line, meaning you have to speak to an agent. But on most days, if the train is simply running a few hours late, you can easily and quickly get train status

via the phone.
 
fairviewroad said:
Hey, um, don't know if anyone knows about this, but apparently the Empire Builder is having some problems this summer. I just

learned about it on the Amtrak website. Fortunately, things will be cleared up by August 30! :giggle:

Empire Builder Trains 7, 27 and 807 and Trains 8, 28 and 808: Significant Delays Along the Route

Effective through August 30, 2012

Passengers traveling aboard the Empire Builder may experience delays of approximately two to five hours due to track work, speed restrictions caused by extreme heat conditions and other operating conditions along the route.

Passengers should plan for the possibility of a delay and contact Amtrak before heading to the station. The most up-to-date arrival and departure times are available on Amtrak.com, our free iPhone app and at 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak. We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience.
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i always wonder how many high level administrative meetings go into a statement like this service advisory which says nothing. what does "plan for the possibility of a delay" mean? plan that you won't make your connection? "effective through august 30, 2012". things will be fine on 9/1 or expect another service advisory (realizing it took amtrak several months to issue this one)?
 
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I'm scheduled to depart MKE on 7 tomorrow. I noticed this service advisory on the Amtrak site earlier today, then this afternoon received two emails and a voicemail stating the same thing.
 
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I have taken the EB three times so far this summer and will ride it twice more before mid-September. From what I have seen it is a combination of some bad luck, a lot of track construction, significantly increased freight traffic (big time increases from Williston to the east especially) and to a lesser extent the heat issue. As I stated in my earlier messages yesterday across the northern plains the weather was actually pleasant and even cool in ND(light rain) yet we continued to plod along at speeds that were downright pokey (less than 60 mph for a long while). Even the conductors on the EB were shaking their heads, since BNSF was enforcing the heat restrictions, even when the temps were in the 60's and 70's--which is ludicrous.

Rather than being totally a "summer" phenomenon I truly believe this is a structural shift on this line. The new energy related freight traffic will not only not go away it will continue to increase and increase rapidly. Anyone that has seen the activity in western ND knows this. Montana's exports of various grains (mostly to the west coast) will be up double digits this year and will continue to increase, so that is in no way a summer item. Some significant additional export coal movement is also noted-mostly destined for the west coast ports. Another kicker is the increased use of the trains by FedEx and UPS to move items longer distances. My local BNSF contact here in WFH says this has also greatly increased over the past couple years and has been quite a money-maker for BNSF. The recent derailment in MT involved some of these types of cars btw.

Looking at reality here a 4 to 6 hour delay in CHI arrivals will become a de facto "norm" going into the future and on time arrivals in SEA and PDX will become increasingly rare, with more and more turn arounds in Spokane or a realization that the schedule MUST be adjusted to reflect the new realities of what is occurring on the high line. e all know that most of this route is single track, which greatly limits the number of trains that can move swiftly on the route. The cost to make this route twin track would run into billions, so I don't think this is in the cards, at least for a while.

One last note. This is a good news/bad news thing. The number of passengers getting on and off in Williston and Minot continues to increase rapidly as energy field activity increases (as energy activity increase in eastern MT in the next few years places like Wolf Point and Glasgow will likely see changes as well, though not as dramatic as Williston). I spoke with a friend who is very active in the Bakken Field and he said we haven't seen anything yet. He expects Williston's population to double in size over the next 5 years or so, putting an even greater strain on all public services, including the trains. With so many new customers getting on in Williston now-going both ways, this greatly limits the number of seats/rooms available for longer distance travel.

At least there is some small recognition by Amtrak they have a problem, but I too am afraid they don't grasp what is truly happening here. The northern plains are no longer the sleepy quiet corner of the US.........
 
Mike is undoubtedly right. It is structural. Amtrak has lived on borrowed time and the loan has come due. Basically cars and planes have stolen decades from passenger rail's life. It is now old and frail, and the country is in a huge financial crisis. Don't look to the neglect being rectified. Too many elections went the wrong way. It may take a lot of years, but I think a time is coming when the economy is going to suffer from all this. But with our national fascination for the short term, why would anyone care about a time that far off?
 
Here's what happened with that #8:

  • The previous consist's locomotives derailed in SEA's yard.
  • There were no spares.
  • Therefore, this consist was turned in SPK to replace the derailed consist.
  • Because the two trains meet in SPK, there's not enough space in the schedule there for turns and so the train left very late.
  • In typical EB fashion, it proceeded to lose 4 or 5 hours across the Hi-Line.

So that's why the #8 due in CHI today is so late.
 
NY Penn, why did the locomitves derail in SEA?

Trogdor said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
If the tracks are bent, they are probably caused by high heat, so the heat restrictions are not without reason. Debris mght be caused by falling rock or trees. Accidents remain a big problem, don't know how to solve it.

Derailments happen so often with freight trains that something seems very wrong with them.
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Dude, you should totally join the NTSB.
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No, I should not!

EB_OBS said:
Well it's been mudslides, landslides, fires, derailments, floods, heat restrictions, track work and track closures, broken down freight trains, cars on track, grade-crossing strikes, high winds, suicidal trespassers and trespasser strikes, broken bolster springs and B/O diner cars, now there was the Grizzly bear in Shelby, MT that caused a delay to #7 and now the Empire Builder itself has derailed both locomotives in the Seattle yard.

What could be next?
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That's really bad. That's just really, really bad! :angry2:
 
It seems they are looking to find enough equipment (mainly by cutting spares down very, very low) to add a sixth train to the rotation. This will enable the train to depart Seattle on time if the inbound is late. This will run for about a month starting some time next week.

Also, no new connections being sold from 8 to eastern trains (except 48) through the end of the month.
 
yarrow said:
Trogdor said:
Also, no new connections being sold from 8 to eastern trains (except 48) through the end of the month.
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wow. i wonder if amtrak has contacted those who already have connections booked and what they are telling them?
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I have an eastern connection (reservation made last month) and I have not heard from Amtrak. However, my connection will be September 30......maybe they're hoping for the best, that things will have improved greatly by then.
 
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Swadian Hardcore said:
Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?
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Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.
 
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?
Click to expand...
Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.
Click to expand...

It was that goat again.
 
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?
Click to expand...
Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.
Click to expand...
Most of those things are preentable. Why were they not prevented?
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?
Click to expand...
Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.
Click to expand...
Most of those things are preentable. Why were they not prevented?
Click to expand...
So you think the folks in SEA deliberately let the locomotives derail? Seriously? A locomotive derailment is an accident and by definition, accident is something that happens when you don't expect it to happen. Look at plane crashes around the world over the years. There is technology to make planes safe to fly and under ideal conditions no plane would ever crash, but yet some do crash and will continue to crash in the future. As the above poster said, stuff happens.
 
Did you know on the Amtrak web page they are now predicting 2-5 hours late :eek: . This would be awesome going eastbound. IMHO, I think any one wanting to see the best of the empire builder should take it now. You will probably get maybe even the whole Rockies' range in Montana!!!!!!!! I consider this lateness a double edge sword. :lol:
 
williamflemming said:
Did you know on the Amtrak web page they are now predicting 2-5 hours late :eek: . This would be awesome going eastbound. IMHO, I think any one wanting to see the best of the empire builder should take it now. You will probably get maybe even the whole Rockies' range in Montana!!!!!!!! I consider this lateness a double edge sword. :lol:
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going east you always get the rockies in the daytime.
 
Texan Eagle said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Swadian Hardcore said:
Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?
Click to expand...
Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.
Click to expand...
Most of those things are preventable. Why were they not prevented?
Click to expand...
So you think the folks in SEA deliberately let the locomotives derail? Seriously? A locomotive derailment is an accident and by definition, accident is something that happens when you don't expect it to happen. Look at plane crashes around the world over the years. There is technology to make planes safe to fly and under ideal conditions no plane would ever crash, but yet some do crash and will continue to crash in the future. As the above poster said, stuff happens.
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I don't think they deliberately let it derail, but these derailments juat happen way too much. Stuff happens, yes, but accidents happening three times a week (including freight) is not acceptable! Too many accidents!
 
I think this might have been the cause of one of the derailments:

71812.jpg


:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
yarrow said:
williamflemming said:
Did you know on the Amtrak web page they are now predicting 2-5 hours late :eek: . This would be awesome going eastbound. IMHO, I think any one wanting to see the best of the empire builder should take it now. You will probably get maybe even the whole Rockies' range in Montana!!!!!!!! I consider this lateness a double edge sword. :lol:
Click to expand...
going east you always get the rockies in the daytime.
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I mean, not just from Whitefish east.
 
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