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If you had to eliminate one Amtrak route...

Started by johnny.menhennet , Jul 05 2012 08:19 AM

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#1 johnny.menhennet

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:19 AM

We have had a lot of discussions recently about what train services would be beneficial or what we would like to have, so I had a question for clash's sake. If you were in charge of determining the one route that had to be cut from the system entirely, so not just reduce frequency, but completely eliminate, what would it be? I know that this is extremely subjective, but that's ok. I will let you guys gauge how you determine this, whether it is ridership, redundancy in the system, losses, etc., as long as you explain it. Personally, I do not have nearly as much experience as many of you others when it comes to the actual logistics of the network and other things, and I don't actually have a route in mind. I was just wondering's everybody's opinions.

BTW I don't want any "Crescent south of Atlanta" or "EB west of St. Paul," I'm looking for a full route elimination and reasons. Thanks for your answers. I just think that this will be pretty interesting.
Amtrak: Pacific Surfliner (100000000000), Southwest Chief (5), California Zephyr (1), Coast Starlight (6), Capitol Corridor (1), Empire Builder (2), Acela Express (1), LSL (1), NE Regional (2)
Non-Amtrak: NCTD Coaster (at least 20), Metrolink (4), SD Trolley (at least 20), LACMTA Red Line (at least 50), Seattle Streetcar (1), Chicago 'L' (probably 13), NYC Subway (probably 15), WMATA Mass Transit (probably 20), LIRR (1), Las Vegas Monorail (at least 12), MBTA Mass Transit (16), NJ Transit commuter rail (3), I'm sure there are more that I can't think of right now

upcoming Amtrak: Pacific Surfliner (10000000000 more),
upcoming non-Amtrak: Coaster, Red Line/Expo Line in LA

Pretty good for a 16 year old :)

#2 Ispolkom

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:32 AM

One route to eliminate? Definitely the Sunset Limited. Why? To end the interminable Sunset East threads. Extreme? Perhaps, but desperate times require desperate measures.

#3 johnny.menhennet

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

One route to eliminate? Definitely the Sunset Limited. Why? To end the interminable Sunset East threads. Extreme? Perhaps, but desperate times require desperate measures.


Not what I was looking for, but "LIKE"
a sense of humor means just as much as seriousness to me :D
Amtrak: Pacific Surfliner (100000000000), Southwest Chief (5), California Zephyr (1), Coast Starlight (6), Capitol Corridor (1), Empire Builder (2), Acela Express (1), LSL (1), NE Regional (2)
Non-Amtrak: NCTD Coaster (at least 20), Metrolink (4), SD Trolley (at least 20), LACMTA Red Line (at least 50), Seattle Streetcar (1), Chicago 'L' (probably 13), NYC Subway (probably 15), WMATA Mass Transit (probably 20), LIRR (1), Las Vegas Monorail (at least 12), MBTA Mass Transit (16), NJ Transit commuter rail (3), I'm sure there are more that I can't think of right now

upcoming Amtrak: Pacific Surfliner (10000000000 more),
upcoming non-Amtrak: Coaster, Red Line/Expo Line in LA

Pretty good for a 16 year old :)

#4 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:50 AM

Any route except those that serve my needs. :ph34r:

I don't know enough about riderships, etc to make an educated or uneducated suggestion.

2011: Jun: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // Nov: WIL=>WAS=>CHI=>PRO (NER=>CL=>CZ)
2012: Apr: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // May: WIL=>PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>PAO=>PHL (Keystone) // Aug: WIL=>WAS (NER) / BWI=>WIL (NER) // Oct: PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>HAR=>PHL (Keystone) / SEPTA, NJT, PATCO, River Line, Princeton Dinky

2013: NTD: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER)    Hope to do's:  WIL=>BOS day trip // Gathering

#5 VentureForth

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:54 AM

66/67. You can't run a regional that long without sleepers. I like the idea, but it needs to be a named sleeper train with a longer route.

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#6 jimhudson

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

Since your thread asks for One LD route to eliminate it's gotta be the Sunset Ltd. due to the Losses and the tie up of Crews and Equipment that is needed on the other Superliner Routes! The good news is that Id go with a Daily Texas Eagle from CHI-LAX and have a Daily Stub Train made up of Two CCCs (one for Biz Class) and a Coach or Two (depending on Ridership) from SAS-NOL. The so called "Deal" that Amtrak made with UP to not discuss this for Two Years be damned! :excl: :excl: :excl: (Second choice would be the Cardinal but that's another story!)

Edited by jimhudson, 05 July 2012 - 09:00 AM.

Hope to See See ya' in the Windy City for the Gathering in Oct!!!
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#7 henryj

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

I would eliminate the NEC and all LD trains east of the Mississippi.

Henryj. Trains I have ridden: Sunbeam, Sam Houston Zephyr, Valley Eagle, Houstonian, Sunset Limited, Twin Star Rocket, Texas Eagle, Texas Zephyr, Texas Chief, California Zephyr, City of Portland, City of San Francisco, Coast Daylight, Canadian, Winnipeger, San Diegan, Flying Crow, Spirit of St. Louis, Pennsy NEC. Amtrak: Lone Star, Crescent, NEC, Broadway Ltd, LSL, Maple Leaf, The International, EB, CS, Sunset Limited, City of New Orleans, CZ, Cascade, Eagle, Cardinal, Meteor, Acela plus many excursions.

#8 PRR 60

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:10 AM

I would eliminate the NEC and all LD trains east of the Mississippi.

That leaves the Coast Starlight. All the other LD's operate, at least in part, east of the Mississippi. :P

#9 Texan Eagle

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:11 AM

I would eliminate the NEC and all LD trains east of the Mississippi.


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If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.

#10 afigg

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

66/67. You can't run a regional that long without sleepers. I like the idea, but it needs to be a named sleeper train with a longer route.

#66 & 67 are trains, not an entire route. Which provide service to many city pairs, not all at night, along the NPN to BOS route. Besides reports are that Amtrak plans to add sleeper cars to 66/67 when the CAF Viewliners sleepers are available.

Not sure what this topic will add to the conversation. The Sunset Limited is the LD train at the greatest risk of cancellation, but it is the only remaining Amtrak train serving several major cities and a large part of the country that otherwise would have no intercity passenger service at all. And once given up, passenger service over a route is difficult and expensive to bring back. Besides, ridership on the SL is up +5.1% for the first 7 months of the fiscal year. Why cancel a service with a positive ridership and revenue trend?

The one Amtrak train that is likely to be eliminated in the next year or two is the Hoosier State. Could be replaced by a daily Cardinal, but as frequently discussed here, there are hurdles to a daily Cardinal service.

#11 FriskyFL

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:38 AM

Easy...SL is the low hanging fruit. Redeploy the equipment to more lucrative routes.

#12 Trogdor

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Threads like this tend to be more pointless than the "what route would you add" threads.
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#13 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Easy. I'd eliminate the Silver Meteor, and run the Star with a bag-dorm, 5 sleepers, two lounges (overflow seating), a diner, and 7 coaches, scheduled to connect with the Palmetto at JAX. You'd lose almost no capacity, no stations, and limited ease.
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#14 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:54 AM

If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.


I would agree, but only if the AT was open to non-auto passengers.

And have a few NEC that go to Lorton for connections to the AT.
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#15 Michael061282

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:43 AM

The Sunset (very) Limited. period.

#16 jphjaxfl

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:24 PM

Keep in mind that any Amtrak route that is discontinued would likely never come back. Since the current system is extremely skeletal, no route should be eliminated. When Amtrak started, we were told that service on many of the discontinued routes would be restored as soon as Amtrak was organized and had some new equipment. A few came back, but they were very political. Many more have left so I hope the last one has been discontinued.

#17 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.

I'd go with one of the Silvers as well for the same reasons. Makes the most sense to me anyway.


Threads like this tend to be more pointless than the "what route would you add" threads.

And the "point" of your own post is?

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#18 amtrakwolverine

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

The springfield shuttles. I wouldn't get rid of them but replace the amtrak equipment with some RDCs. that would free up a few p-42s and amfleets.
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#19 haolerider

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

I would eliminate the NEC and all LD trains east of the Mississippi.

And you would then eliminate Amtrak. Use your head!

#20 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:39 PM

And the "point" of your own post is?


Few, if any, of us here have any direct control over these issues.
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