41 replies to this topic

[PRR 60]

From the VIA Press Release, June 27, 2012:

NEW SCHEDULES

Transcontinental Trains

The Canadian: The Canadian currently provides three round trips per week, year round, between Toronto and Vancouver. Demand for this service is strong and growing during the summer months; VIA has invested more than $55 million to improve service along this route, and is upgrading equipment to meet customer needs.

Demand for this service during the off-peak season, however, is much lower, and has fallen steadily for the past 15 years. Three round trips per week during the off-peak season are no longer needed to meet demand. Beginning this November, The Canadian will offer two round trips per week during the off peak season.

The Ocean : The Ocean currently provides six round trips per week between Montréal and Halifax. VIA has invested more than $25 million to improve this service, and will continue to improve the value of this service to customers.

However, the current schedule, which has been essentially unchanged since 1990, no longer reflects current ridership or foreseeable market demand – ridership has dropped consistently for 15 years as other travel options (highways, air and bus services) have improved. Beginning this November, The Ocean will operate three round trips per week year round.

Quebec – Windsor Intercity Trains

The Montréal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle, where the demand for efficient intercity transportation is high and growing, is VIA's busiest market. In January 2012 VIA added new frequencies, including express services, between Montréal, Ottawa and Toronto. More frequencies will be added this year, and faster trains will reduce overall trip times.

The Southwestern Ontario market includes some of VIA's poorest-performing train services, where customer demand is very low. At the same time, new air services, and expanding commuter rail services in the Greater Toronto area, are further reducing the need for some weekday and weekend VIA services. Accordingly, VIA is reducing frequencies on some routes in Southwestern Ontario and will provide better integration with other public transportation services.

Montréal-Quebec City is a high demand market, and VIA hopes to add an additional frequency on this route later this year to meet the needs of customers.

VIA Press Release

[Devil's Advocate]

30% cut to non-peak services of The Canadian.

50% cut to the The Ocean year-round.

Sounds like a perfectly healthy operation.

Nope, nothing to worry about there.

[jis]

I hope this is not indicative of what might happen in the US next

[Ryan]

Given that ridership isn't dropping (really, 15 consecutive years!) like it is up there, I'm hopeful you're right.

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?

[NS VIA Fan]

Sorry to see the Ocean cut to 3/week but ridership is down considerably from just as few years ago. Airline competition is strong on the route especially out of Halifax...2 hrs to Toronto vs. 24 on the train and flying can be a lot cheaper too.

The Canadian has survived on a triweekly schedule for 22 years (though it’s now being cut to 2/week in the winter) and the Chaleur also survives the cuts on its tri-weekly schedule. It will be interesting to see what the new schedules will be........will the Chaleur run on alternative dates to the Ocean? This would maintain 6/week service along the portion of the route that sees the heaviest ridership.

And I don’t imagine amenities will be cut....... you might have to adjust your schedule but you’ll probably be able to enjoy a trip on the Ocean for a few years yet on a Park Car and sleepers.

[yarrow]

i would guess there will be a lot less express deals on the canadian during the off season. i wonder what months "winter" includes?

[NS VIA Fan]

Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?

Maybe thats why the Canadian isn't being cut to twice weekly year 'round.........they are providing a service the traveller wants and is willing to pay for!

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?

Maybe thats why the Canadian isn't being cut to twice weekly year 'round.........they are providing a service the traveller wants and is willing to pay for!

Maybe it just needs more cowbell?



BTW, Dave said he's not riding The Canadian until VIA starts accepting AGR points for private varnish pulling fees.

[The Davy Crockett]

Ridership is down on the Ocean, but does anybody have an idea of how much fares have increased since 1990? I ask, because I looked into taking it three years back - it was for a sleeper in July, but I was looking in March or April. but it was CRAZY expensive.

I just LOVE this line:

ridership has dropped consistently for 15 years as other travel options (highways, air and bus services) have improved.

Yeah, at the prices VIA charges...

[johnny.menhennet]

Well if this is true, then I guess I have to support this if it means more efficiency and the lesser losses can be used to support demand where it is really needed. Straight from the Trains Magazine News Wire
"Frailey said ridership on the Canadian in 2011’s third quarter was triple that in the first quarter, and revenue jumped 424 percent but costs only 28 percent, and the subsidy required fell by almost 90 percent."
Straight from the Trains Magazine News Wire.

[CHamilton]

Transport Action BC calls VIA Rail Canada cuts ‘inexplicable’ and ‘wrong to the core’
Via All Aboard Washington

KAMLOOPS, JUNE 27, 2012 – Matthew Buchanan, president of the public transportation users and advocacy group, Transport Action BC, said that today’s announcement of yet more cuts to Canada’s nationwide rail passenger service is wrong and inexplicable given this federal government’s recent investment of $923 million in a renewal of VIA Rail Canada’s trains, stations and other assets.

“While the rest of the G20 nations invest heavily and wisely in expanding their rail passenger services, Canada’s longstanding policy of cutting VIA continues,” said Buchanan.

“These cuts are wrong to the core and the destructiveness of this latest round will soon become apparent, much to the detriment of the more than four million passengers who use VIA annually.”

Edited by AlanB, 28 June 2012 - 12:15 PM.
To comply with quoting policy

[yarrow]

i know less than nothing of the canadian budget process and the needs of canada. i do recall however that the harper government is investing heavily in fancy fighter jets while cutting rail service.

[jimhudson]

i would guess there will be a lot less express deals on the canadian during the off season. i wonder what months "winter" includes?

In Canada Winter is after Labor Day till June!! Sounds like the Right Wingers in the Great White North are using our Anti-Rail Naysayers Playbook!!!

Edited by jimhudson, 28 June 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[PRR 60]

i would guess there will be a lot less express deals on the canadian during the off season. i wonder what months "winter" includes?

Those Express Deals and the frequent 50% off sales were probably indicators of ridership issues with the VIA long distance services. Regular fares had become kind of meaningless.

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts such as all service minus the Chalaur and Ocean in the maritimes, the Super Continental, some service in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too. The Heartland Flyer, The Downeaster, expanded Cascades service including the restoration of Seattle to Vancouver BC, more Hiawatha frequencies, expanded service in California....well improved corridor service nations wide. In a country that is supposedly anti-rail Amtrak has done quite, while VIA Rail has done poorly in a country where you would think trains would get more support. Although Ill admit my knowledge of Canadian politics is somewhat limited.

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts such as all service minus the Chalaur and Ocean in the maritimes, the Super Continental, some service in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too. The Heartland Flyer, The Downeaster, expanded Cascades service including the restoration of Seattle to Vancouver BC, more Hiawatha frequencies, expanded service in California....well improved corridor service nations wide. In a country that is supposedly anti-rail Amtrak has done quite, while VIA Rail has done poorly in a country where you would think trains would get more support. Although Ill admit my knowledge of Canadian politics is somewhat limited.

Why are you starting with 1988? Isn't that arbitrarily ignoring nearly half of Amtrak's entire existence? It starts to seem like you're simply walking the data backward from your conclusion at that point. Even in this excessively limited example you're still much closer to describing a wash than a healthy and growing passenger rail network. Not to mention that some of those improved regional services are in the process of forever losing their federal funding. I can understand the desire to cast Amtrak's future in a positive light, but if America were a truly pro-rail country then why are our passenger rail services still stick with speeds, comforts, and technology from four decades ago?

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I started in 1988 because I don't have and can't find any VIA timetables from before then. So suffice to say in the past 20 odd years Amtrak has done better than VIA in many respects.

[NS VIA Fan]

I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts........................... Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too..

When VIA was formed it inherited the entire existing passenger systems of both CN & CP complete and has been trimming the route structure ever since.

Unlike Amtrak........ where overnight on April 30/May 1, 1971 the existing US passenger system was slashed to a bare bone structure which Amtrak was to begin with.

[johnny.menhennet]

I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts........................... Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too..

When VIA was formed it inherited the entire existing passenger systems of both CN & CP complete and has been trimming the route structure ever since.

Unlike Amtrak........ where overnight on April 30/May 1, 1971 the existing US passenger system was slashed to a bare bone structure which Amtrak was to begin with.

But it was predominantly CN trains on CN trackage, correct? I know that CP was in there a little bit, but it was kinda CN's thing, right?