VIA Announces Service Changes

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PRR 60

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From the VIA Press Release, June 27, 2012:

NEW SCHEDULES
Transcontinental Trains

The Canadian: The Canadian currently provides three round trips per week, year round, between Toronto and Vancouver. Demand for this service is strong and growing during the summer months; VIA has invested more than $55 million to improve service along this route, and is upgrading equipment to meet customer needs.

Demand for this service during the off-peak season, however, is much lower, and has fallen steadily for the past 15 years. Three round trips per week during the off-peak season are no longer needed to meet demand. Beginning this November, The Canadian will offer two round trips per week during the off peak season.

The Ocean : The Ocean currently provides six round trips per week between Montréal and Halifax. VIA has invested more than $25 million to improve this service, and will continue to improve the value of this service to customers.

However, the current schedule, which has been essentially unchanged since 1990, no longer reflects current ridership or foreseeable market demand – ridership has dropped consistently for 15 years as other travel options (highways, air and bus services) have improved. Beginning this November, The Ocean will operate three round trips per week year round.

Quebec – Windsor Intercity Trains

The Montréal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle, where the demand for efficient intercity transportation is high and growing, is VIA's busiest market. In January 2012 VIA added new frequencies, including express services, between Montréal, Ottawa and Toronto. More frequencies will be added this year, and faster trains will reduce overall trip times.

The Southwestern Ontario market includes some of VIA's poorest-performing train services, where customer demand is very low. At the same time, new air services, and expanding commuter rail services in the Greater Toronto area, are further reducing the need for some weekday and weekend VIA services. Accordingly, VIA is reducing frequencies on some routes in Southwestern Ontario and will provide better integration with other public transportation services.

Montréal-Quebec City is a high demand market, and VIA hopes to add an additional frequency on this route later this year to meet the needs of customers.
VIA Press Release
 
30% cut to non-peak services of The Canadian.

50% cut to the The Ocean year-round.

Sounds like a perfectly healthy operation.

Nope, nothing to worry about there.
 
Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?
 
Sorry to see the Ocean cut to 3/week but ridership is down considerably from just as few years ago. Airline competition is strong on the route especially out of Halifax...2 hrs to Toronto vs. 24 on the train and flying can be a lot cheaper too.

The Canadian has survived on a triweekly schedule for 22 years (though it’s now being cut to 2/week in the winter) and the Chaleur also survives the cuts on its tri-weekly schedule. It will be interesting to see what the new schedules will be........will the Chaleur run on alternative dates to the Ocean? This would maintain 6/week service along the portion of the route that sees the heaviest ridership.

And I don’t imagine amenities will be cut....... you might have to adjust your schedule but you’ll probably be able to enjoy a trip on the Ocean for a few years yet on a Park Car and sleepers.
 
Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?
Maybe thats why the Canadian isn't being cut to twice weekly year 'round.........they are providing a service the traveller wants and is willing to pay for!
 
Maybe VIA wouldn't be as starved for funds if they hadn't pissed away millions on renovations geared toward turning their premier train into a conventional hotel room?
Maybe thats why the Canadian isn't being cut to twice weekly year 'round.........they are providing a service the traveller wants and is willing to pay for!
Maybe it just needs more cowbell?

Walken-Cowbell.jpg


BTW, Dave said he's not riding The Canadian until VIA starts accepting AGR points for private varnish pulling fees.
 
Ridership is down on the Ocean, but does anybody have an idea of how much fares have increased since 1990? I ask, because I looked into taking it three years back - it was for a sleeper in July, but I was looking in March or April. but it was :wacko: CRAZY :wacko: expensive.

I just :wub: LOVE :wub: this line:

ridership has dropped consistently for 15 years as other travel options (highways, air and bus services) have improved.
:unsure: Yeah, at the prices VIA charges... :eek:
 
Well if this is true, then I guess I have to support this if it means more efficiency and the lesser losses can be used to support demand where it is really needed. Straight from the Trains Magazine News Wire

"Frailey said ridership on the Canadian in 2011’s third quarter was triple that in the first quarter, and revenue jumped 424 percent but costs only 28 percent, and the subsidy required fell by almost 90 percent."

Straight from the Trains Magazine News Wire.
 
Transport Action BC calls VIA Rail Canada cuts ‘inexplicable’ and ‘wrong to the core’

Via All Aboard Washington

KAMLOOPS, JUNE 27, 2012 – Matthew Buchanan, president of the public transportation users and advocacy group, Transport Action BC, said that today’s announcement of yet more cuts to Canada’s nationwide rail passenger service is wrong and inexplicable given this federal government’s recent investment of $923 million in a renewal of VIA Rail Canada’s trains, stations and other assets.

“While the rest of the G20 nations invest heavily and wisely in expanding their rail passenger services, Canada’s longstanding policy of cutting VIA continues,” said Buchanan.

“These cuts are wrong to the core and the destructiveness of this latest round will soon become apparent, much to the detriment of the more than four million passengers who use VIA annually.”
 
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i would guess there will be a lot less express deals on the canadian during the off season. i wonder what months "winter" includes?
In Canada Winter is after Labor Day till June!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Sounds like the Right Wingers in the Great White North are using our Anti-Rail Naysayers Playbook!!! :eek:
 
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i would guess there will be a lot less express deals on the canadian during the off season. i wonder what months "winter" includes?
Those Express Deals and the frequent 50% off sales were probably indicators of ridership issues with the VIA long distance services. Regular fares had become kind of meaningless.
 
I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts such as all service minus the Chalaur and Ocean in the maritimes, the Super Continental, some service in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too. The Heartland Flyer, The Downeaster, expanded Cascades service including the restoration of Seattle to Vancouver BC, more Hiawatha frequencies, expanded service in California....well improved corridor service nations wide. In a country that is supposedly anti-rail Amtrak has done quite, while VIA Rail has done poorly in a country where you would think trains would get more support. Although Ill admit my knowledge of Canadian politics is somewhat limited.
 
I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts such as all service minus the Chalaur and Ocean in the maritimes, the Super Continental, some service in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too. The Heartland Flyer, The Downeaster, expanded Cascades service including the restoration of Seattle to Vancouver BC, more Hiawatha frequencies, expanded service in California....well improved corridor service nations wide. In a country that is supposedly anti-rail Amtrak has done quite, while VIA Rail has done poorly in a country where you would think trains would get more support. Although Ill admit my knowledge of Canadian politics is somewhat limited.
Why are you starting with 1988? Isn't that arbitrarily ignoring nearly half of Amtrak's entire existence? It starts to seem like you're simply walking the data backward from your conclusion at that point. Even in this excessively limited example you're still much closer to describing a wash than a healthy and growing passenger rail network. Not to mention that some of those improved regional services are in the process of forever losing their federal funding. I can understand the desire to cast Amtrak's future in a positive light, but if America were a truly pro-rail country then why are our passenger rail services still stick with speeds, comforts, and technology from four decades ago?
 
I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts........................... Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too..
When VIA was formed it inherited the entire existing passenger systems of both CN & CP complete and has been trimming the route structure ever since.

Unlike Amtrak........ where overnight on April 30/May 1, 1971 the existing US passenger system was slashed to a bare bone structure which Amtrak was to begin with.
 
I don't think VIA rail has ever expanded service, looking back at the 1988 timetable I have and the one today I don't see a single expansion in service anywhere just numerous cuts........................... Looking back on the 1988 Amtrak timetable and the one today, the story is a bit happier. Yeah we lost a few trains in the since then (The Pioneer, Desert Wind and Three Rivers being the major ones) but we've gained quite a bit too..
When VIA was formed it inherited the entire existing passenger systems of both CN & CP complete and has been trimming the route structure ever since.

Unlike Amtrak........ where overnight on April 30/May 1, 1971 the existing US passenger system was slashed to a bare bone structure which Amtrak was to begin with.
But it was predominantly CN trains on CN trackage, correct? I know that CP was in there a little bit, but it was kinda CN's thing, right?
 
What do you mean by "expanded service?" Route mileage that did not exist in 1988 (or 1977, VIA's start) but does exist in 2012? Or additional frequencies, over what existed in 1988 (or 1977)? Or both?

Since 1977, the Atlantic has gone away, come back, gone away again. Same thing, I believe, with the Canadian (treating the current Canadian as the Super Continental).

I would have to review some VIA Rail timetables from the 1970s and 1980s to confirm, but I know frequencies on the corridor services in Ontario and Quebec have changed over the years, and recently been increased in the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridors.
 
From what I recall, the only major "expansion" of VIA service was when Mulroney forced the Super-Continental (I think) back into service following Trudeau's cuts.

There are two addendums to this:

1) To some extent, the problem is that transportation is largely a provincial bailwick, and I do not believe that any of the provinces have ever made a major investment in intercity rail (whereas in the US, let me rattle off all of the states that have come up with cash for services at various times: ME, VT, MA, CT, NY, NJ, PA, VA, NC, FL, IL, MI, MO, WA, OR, CA, OK, and AK have all funded major services while we came close to adding OH, IA and WI to the list recently...and might get there yet with IA). By comparison, Ontario Northland notwithstanding, I don't think that Ontario has seriously thrown in for longer-distance services (though I think the Toronto commuter network has been creeping in that direction). Most of the other services out there are more in the vein of Metra or Metro-North than anything, from what I can tell.

2) In keeping with #1, there's not much of a network to be had. Part of the problem is that the Prairie cities are probably too far apart to run anything but super-fast trains at a speed that would attract ridership at the present time, and Edmonton-Calgary aside (where, incidentally, I've heard hearsay of a train proposal being mooted), the cities off the network in Ontatio and Quebec just aren't that big. For example, the only theoretically viable links from Winnpipeg would be Regina (roughly 350 miles) or Saksatoon (close to 500 miles), both of which are probably too far away for a corridor to work (and neither route has any intermediate markets of note).

-Extending a bit further, Winnipeg-Saskatoon-Edmonton or Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary are both over 800 miles. Not bad for a /really/ long day train or an overnighter...but those are pretty hard sells, transportation-wise, at the moment. Winnipeg-Toronto is just under 1000 miles...and only has Sudbury and Thunder Bay along the line.

-Elsewhere, everything in BC more or less piles onto Vancouver except Victoria (where the strait makes a hash of any connection), there's nothing else on the plains. All of your other cities either have populations that aren't terribly large or that are separated by distance/track issues.

Basically, outside the corridor itself, I'm hard-pressed to see how you make a train system work in the way that Amtrak does unless you ramp up the speeds and run nonstop expresses at 90 MPH most of the way...and even then, the picture really isn't that clear. The cities just aren't large enough to provide the necessary ridership you'd need to support the investment required for an HSR system of any sort.

In short, Canada really sucks for passenger rail at the moment. I can see something eventually coming together in Alberta with the right government, and I could possibly see some expansions in Ontario and Quebec, but nothing else seems to work.
 
This is not good at all. I really liked VIA for it's classic equipment, but now I fear that they will soon end up like Mexico, with no passenger trains whatsoever. I hope this will not happen to Amtrak, because riership has been growing for years. Amtrak is finally overcoming the poor reputation and severe competetition. I'm not saying that Amtrak must kill all the domestic flights and interstate, I just want them, and VIA, to survive.
 
Canada will not end up "like Mexico, with no passenger trains whatsoever." The Windsor-Toronto-(Ottawa)-Montreal-Quebec corridor will survive, as will the various commuter lines that exist.
 
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