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Brightline (FEC) Update


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#1981 jis

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 09:49 AM

If Tri-Rail is to be believed, they have already said that trains will alternate and there will be a connecting shuttle to the MIC (from Metro Transfer presumably, though it could be from further up line for operational conveience) from the trains going to Miami Central. The shuttle would actually be operated Hialeah Yard to MIC I think. So there will be more frequent service to MIC than Miami Central according to that plan. Of course 9-12 months is a long long time to change the plans a few times.

 

Keep in mind that there are trackage access (for FECR) and possibly other costs (e.g. dispatching fees charged by the Florida Dispatching Company) involved for Tri-Rail to go to Miami Central which it does not have for going to MIC.



#1982 chrsjrcj

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:44 AM

I'm going to be there to ride it on May 27th so hopefully it is open. Does anyone know what the fares are going to be yet?

 

Introductory will still be $10 for Smart and $15/$20 for Select (depending on demand). 



#1983 jis

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:52 AM

And we hit 100 pages on this one!


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#1984 Anderson

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 01:51 AM

Woohoo!


Amtrak mileage to date: Somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 miles...I /really/ need to run all of my trips through a calculator sometime.

...and no, I am not /that/ Anderson...;-)


#1985 Mystic River Dragon

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:58 AM

One of the most beautiful train photos I have ever seen was of the blue set, crossing the river at Jacksonville, with water and sky that lovely Florida blue, and with boats on the water in the background. It is dated December 13, 2016, and was the first to arrive.

 

Have they all arrived now? (I'm sure the answer is in this thread somewhere, but 100 pages is a lot to scroll through! :P)

 

Have they taken a class picture yet (like NS did for its Heritage series)?



#1986 jis

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

One of the most beautiful train photos I have ever seen was of the blue set, crossing the river at Jacksonville, with water and sky that lovely Florida blue, and with boats on the water in the background. It is dated December 13, 2016, and was the first to arrive.
 
Have they all arrived now? (I'm sure the answer is in this thread somewhere, but 100 pages is a lot to scroll through! :P)
 
Have they taken a class picture yet (like NS did for its Heritage series)?

The five short sets that were scheduled to arrive for use in the Miami - West Palm Beach Service have all arrived on property quite a while back.

 

Eventually there will be five more sets and all sets will get lengthened to at least 8, maybe 9 cars, by 2021. The longer sets will start arriving after the tracks are built out to Orlando Airport and the maintenance facility at Orlando Airport has become functional. long sets can only be serviced there. The West palm beach facility can only handle short sets.


Edited by jis, 27 April 2018 - 10:25 AM.


#1987 Mystic River Dragon

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:22 AM

Thanks for the updates, jis!



#1988 jis

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 02:44 PM

Brightline Adds Miami Into Schedule, Service Starts Within Weeks
 
Brightline’s new schedule which includes a Miami stop will begin this weekend.
 
Paying passengers will not yet be boarding in Miami as testing continues, but will be able to within a few weeks.
 
Testing has already been underway in Miami for a few weeks, but this is the first time that trains to Miami will be added to the regular schedule. In total, eleven departures per day between each city are planned.
 
. . . . .


https://www.thenextm...tarts-in-weeks/



#1989 Brian_tampa

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:29 PM

PB Post did a nice story on ridership today. Of 44 random trips their reporters made last month, they found an average of 50 riders per train. Or 20% load factor. Trips were made on trains at all times of day, every day of the week. Nice ridership for an initial segment between two stations 45 miles apart. I figure once Miami opens, those numbers will double or maybe triple initially. Looks good so far, no wonder they are happy with the numbers. When Orlando opens in 2021 they might have 75% plus load factors. Of course this is with reduced fares, so we shall see what happens when they raise the prices.

https://www.mypalmbe...gphQYy7Ywv6jFO/

#1990 chrsjrcj

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:30 PM

SunFest is next weekend too, and even without Miami it should boost ridership.

#1991 Brian_tampa

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 08:45 PM

One of the most beautiful train photos I have ever seen was of the blue set, crossing the river at Jacksonville, with water and sky that lovely Florida blue, and with boats on the water in the background. It is dated December 13, 2016, and was the first to arrive.
 
Have they all arrived now? (I'm sure the answer is in this thread somewhere, but 100 pages is a lot to scroll through! :P)
 
Have they taken a class picture yet (like NS did for its Heritage series)?

The five short sets that were scheduled to arrive for use in the Miami - West Palm Beach Service have all arrived on property quite a while back.
 
Eventually there will be five more sets and all sets will get lengthened to at least 8, maybe 9 cars, by 2021. The longer sets will start arriving after the tracks are built out to Orlando Airport and the maintenance facility at Orlando Airport has become functional. long sets can only be serviced there. The West palm beach facility can only handle short sets.
I thought that I remember reading that the WPB repair/maintenance facility could handle the longer 7 car trains. It was to be converted to a running repair/maintenance facility only after Orlando opens. The major repairs would take place in Orlando whereas WPB would handle the minor stuff as well as interior cleaning/stocking. It appears that each of the 4 tracks in the WPB facility are around 1000 feet long. Damn I wish I could keep track of all the information I have learned over the past 6 years!

Remember, once Orlando opens AAF will have to keep at least one or two trains overnight in WPB in order to allow for early departures north the next morning from Miami. Also, AAF has designed their operations to not waste money so why would they build WPB to not handle 7 car trains? ;)

#1992 chrsjrcj

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:49 PM

Well the two most western tracks, track 3 and 4, typically handle two of the trainsets with room to spare. The only issue would be the pit under track 1 which is only long enough for the current trainset length. When Orlando opens, theyll do the heavy maintenance cycles there. The pit isnt necessary to do a daily inspection on the train, but does make it a lot easier.

#1993 Caesar La Rock

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:10 PM

Speaking of Orlando I took these today of the airport terminal via a bus. It looks really good.

 

Attached File  227.jpg   79.72KB   9 downloads

 

Attached File  228.jpg   88.1KB   10 downloads

 

Attached File  233.jpg   79.39KB   9 downloads


Edited by Caesar La Rock, 27 April 2018 - 10:11 PM.

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#1994 jis

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:56 PM

Well the two most western tracks, track 3 and 4, typically handle two of the trainsets with room to spare. The only issue would be the pit under track 1 which is only long enough for the current trainset length. When Orlando opens, theyll do the heavy maintenance cycles there. The pit isnt necessary to do a daily inspection on the train, but does make it a lot easier.

That is what I meant. The heavy repair shop for the full consists will be in Orlando. You can certainly park several full length trains at the WPB facility.

Edited by jis, 28 April 2018 - 12:20 AM.


#1995 GBNorman

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 07:48 AM

The article appearing in Cox's Palm Beach Post linked by Brian-Tampa within his immediate, is "interesting" and, sorry volks, not surprising.

Naturally, this "introductory period" could only have low ridership, and I'm certain that AAF management was ready to accept low ridership during such. But unfortunately at this time, I can only conclude the history of AAF is that it's providing "Disneyland rides on the cheap" - and, party at fault notwithstanding, killing people in the process. The opening of Miami Central, which could happen closer to Easter than Xmas and contrary to my prediction, could well produce enough passengers actually using the service to get from "Ehh to Bee" and to justify it's continuation as a public accommodation rather than what could well at present meet the legal standard of Public Nuisance.

#1996 me_little_me

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 05:07 PM

SunFest is next weekend too, and even without Miami it should boost ridership.

Would it be better to have a separate thread for operational/ticketing/pricing issues vs  future station/extension issues on Brightline? Now that Brightline is operational, it is no longer just one issue.



#1997 Scott Orlando

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 12:34 PM

Some recent photos of the MCO station.
1- Facing south towards the future maintenance facilty
2,3,4- Platform pics
5- my son in front of the future station entrance

Attached Files


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<p>[size=2]Silver Star 5, Silver Meteor 3, California Zephyr 2, Capitol Limited, City of New Orleans, Sunset Limited, Sunrail, Tri-Rail, Trinty Railway Express, Great Smoky Mountain Railway, Georgetown Loop, Stone Mountain Railway, DC Metro, MARTA, BART, Miami Metrorail, and Metro Rio and SuperVia (Rio de Janeiro)

#1998 Anderson

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:11 AM

I'm quite alright with seeing the thread start to split...right now we're approaching 2000 posts; more to the point, we have a "live" service that (as noted above) may be subject to all sorts of issues.

On the article: I tend to agree that WPB-FLL is a dubious "viable segment" as a stand-alone service, though it's also worth noting that taking 50 riders per train, presuming 22 trains/day (11 round-trips), and multiplying by 365 gives an annual ridership of just over 400k riders (and annual revenue in the range of about $5.5m, based on ridership distribution...I'm having to guess at revenue figures just a little bit, but $17.50/Select ticket and $10/Smart ticket at the ratios given in the article gives $5,339,950).  I cannot speak to costs, but this is almost definitely not covering them.  Worth noting is that Brightline has already bumped Select pricing; there will probably be further bumps (closing in on a "full" dynamic pricing model).

However, it does seem likely on this basis that MIA-FLL-WPB should bump those levels much closer to a million riders per year (WPB-MIA in an hour is a very substantial offering), something which would probably at least get the service reasonably close to break-even (since I'm going to guess that per-passenger revenue would also bump substantially).

Edit: Let's play with some numbers, shall we?  Let's presume that, with three-station service, Brightline gets the following breakdown in ridership:

-350k WPB-FLL (a modest reduction from current numbers)

-350k FLL-MIA
-400k WPB-MIA

Select pricing goes to $15-30 WPB-FLL (average price $22), $15-25 MIA-FLL (average price $20), and $20-40 MIA-FLL (average price $30).  Overall, Select ridership drops to about 25% of ridership (though it's closer to 35% for the full-length market).
Smart pricing becomes slightly dynamic, going to $10-15 for either WPB-FLL (avg $12.50) or FLL-MIA (avg $12.00) and $15-20 WPB-MIA (avg $17.50).

By segment, we'd get the following:
-WPB-FLL: 75k Select ($1.65m), 275k Smart ($3.44m)

-FLL-MIA: 60k Select ($1.20m), 290k Smart ($3.48m)

-WPB-MIA: 140k Select ($4.20m), 260k Smart ($4.55m)
Overall revenue would be sitting at $18.52m/yr at that point.

I have no idea how reasonable this is or how far it would go towards covering costs.


Edited by Anderson, 03 May 2018 - 05:07 AM.

Amtrak mileage to date: Somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 miles...I /really/ need to run all of my trips through a calculator sometime.

...and no, I am not /that/ Anderson...;-)


#1999 cirdan

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 04:17 AM

The five short sets that were scheduled to arrive for use in the Miami - West Palm Beach Service have all arrived on property quite a while back.

 

 

 

Eventually there will be five more sets and all sets will get lengthened to at least 8, maybe 9 cars, by 2021. The longer sets will start arriving after the tracks are built out to Orlando Airport and the maintenance facility at Orlando Airport has become functional. long sets can only be serviced there. The West palm beach facility can only handle short sets.

 

 

So the WPB facility cannot be extended / modified to handle longer sets?

 

Is that a total lack of foresight, or was this facility never intended to be permanent?



#2000 Anderson

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 05:10 AM

 

The five short sets that were scheduled to arrive for use in the Miami - West Palm Beach Service have all arrived on property quite a while back.

 

 

 

Eventually there will be five more sets and all sets will get lengthened to at least 8, maybe 9 cars, by 2021. The longer sets will start arriving after the tracks are built out to Orlando Airport and the maintenance facility at Orlando Airport has become functional. long sets can only be serviced there. The West palm beach facility can only handle short sets.

 

 

So the WPB facility cannot be extended / modified to handle longer sets?

 

Is that a total lack of foresight, or was this facility never intended to be permanent?

 

I suspect it was never intended to be permanent.  In an ideal world, Brightline would have been able to roll out service on the whole route all at once.  Obviously, among other issues, the holding-up of the loans to cover the Orlando segment slowed down construction.


Amtrak mileage to date: Somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 miles...I /really/ need to run all of my trips through a calculator sometime.

...and no, I am not /that/ Anderson...;-)





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