yarrow
Engineer
i read in another thread that via is considering a twice weekly canadian in winter. anyone have any insight into whether this is possible fact or probable fiction?
twice weekly canadian in winter?
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NS VIA Fan
Conductor
Yes, there's probably a good pretty good chance the Canadian, as well as the Ocean and Chaleur are going to see some changes and the Harper government has been floating trial balloons in the media to gauge public reaction.
Not the best situation……but in winter, if you can work your schedule around a tri-weekly Canadian…..you probably can for a twice-weekly one and it still maintains the mandate to serve isolated communities (barely).
>>>>>>>>>>
The Ocean has seen its passenger numbers drop considerably the past few years. There's just a lot of airline competition out of Halifax. A two hour flight to Toronto vs 24 on the train with a fare that's just as cheap or cheaper.......But Moncton and west still sees reasonable loads on the train.
CN also wants to abandon a portion of the Ocean's ICR route via Campbellton which might see it rerouted to the NTR through Edmundston which is CN's freight route to the Maritimes: shorter, fast and CTC all the way. (It hugs the US border of Maine's Aroostook County)
What might happen is the Ocean will operate 3 days a week on the NTR and the Chaleur will run the other 3 days on the ICR to Gaspe…..still maintaining the current 6 days a week service on the western end of the route. Some towns in New Brunswick will lose service but others which haven't seen a passenger train in 20 years will gain.
Certainly not the best scenario…….but passenger usage is down on Ocean and the government is requiring VIA to trim its budget. The money is being spent on corridor improvements where people are riding trains.
Not the best situation……but in winter, if you can work your schedule around a tri-weekly Canadian…..you probably can for a twice-weekly one and it still maintains the mandate to serve isolated communities (barely).
>>>>>>>>>>
The Ocean has seen its passenger numbers drop considerably the past few years. There's just a lot of airline competition out of Halifax. A two hour flight to Toronto vs 24 on the train with a fare that's just as cheap or cheaper.......But Moncton and west still sees reasonable loads on the train.
CN also wants to abandon a portion of the Ocean's ICR route via Campbellton which might see it rerouted to the NTR through Edmundston which is CN's freight route to the Maritimes: shorter, fast and CTC all the way. (It hugs the US border of Maine's Aroostook County)
What might happen is the Ocean will operate 3 days a week on the NTR and the Chaleur will run the other 3 days on the ICR to Gaspe…..still maintaining the current 6 days a week service on the western end of the route. Some towns in New Brunswick will lose service but others which haven't seen a passenger train in 20 years will gain.
Certainly not the best scenario…….but passenger usage is down on Ocean and the government is requiring VIA to trim its budget. The money is being spent on corridor improvements where people are riding trains.
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jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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If VIA comes up with another sale I might consider going to Halifax and hanging out there for a long weekend again. I really came to like the place on my last visit.
BTW, I think it would be nice if VIA could round out the Corridor timetable a bit with more regular clockface once every two hours sort of service. However, that all depends on the demand I suppose.
Sorry to hear about what is likely to happen to the LD network. Considering how much carping goes on about the LD network. the US should consider itself lucky have a comparatively stable LD network at least for now.
BTW, I think it would be nice if VIA could round out the Corridor timetable a bit with more regular clockface once every two hours sort of service. However, that all depends on the demand I suppose.
Sorry to hear about what is likely to happen to the LD network. Considering how much carping goes on about the LD network. the US should consider itself lucky have a comparatively stable LD network at least for now.
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
We're probably going to see an increase in speed and frequency in the Toronto – Ottawa/Montreal Corridor later this year when the miles of new triple tracking and several station project where island platforms are being installed is complete.
http://www.viarail.c.../tracks-project
http://www.viarail.c...tations-project
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
There is a news item at the "Trains' website where a spokesperson for CAW National Council 4000 (the union for about 2.000 VIA workers) says that
The article quotes the MP for the Trinity-Spadina area, Olivia Chow:
MP Chow went on to say...
Edit: Because I can! <_<
This spokesperson went on to say that they think VIA management has been told to wait to make the cuts until Parliament is not in session, to try and blunt criticism of Prime Minister Harper's government.
The article quotes the MP for the Trinity-Spadina area, Olivia Chow:
Hmmm, sounds familiar down here south of the border.... :huh:
MP Chow went on to say...
The article makes it sound that the Canadian will be x2 weekly in slow season, and that the service between Montral and Halifax will also be impacted.
Edit: Because I can! <_<
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yarrow
Engineer
i think the cut the canucks should make is stephen harper. "the canadian" is a symbol of canada known far and wide. to cut it seems penny wise(i know the canadians are getting rid of pennies) and pound (or loonie)foolish
Ok, having taken one leg on the corridor and about to take another leg in half an hour so, I've twigged the problem that VIA is having with cost recovery and losses: The corridor trains are too (blank) short. Not that they could necessarily fill more cars, but I just don't see how you can get a four-car consist into the black no matter what you do (especially if one of those four is a dedicated cafe of some sort...right there you're down to two Economy Class cars and one Business Class car, which just isn't going to cut it). Mind you, I'm hopeful that the $1 billion that Harper is putting into the Corridor will pay off (no pun intended) and they'll be able to put the trains up to 5-6 cars (which should close the gap noticeably), but it's very hard to make anything work with trains that are so short.
One other note: It seems to be quite the pity that these cuts are coming when they are (Canadian revenue was up sharply last year), but I get the feeling (from looking over VIA's numbers) that the seasonality of that ridership has been getting rather extreme. Still, it's a pity that they can't maintain tthe services at this point.
One other note: It seems to be quite the pity that these cuts are coming when they are (Canadian revenue was up sharply last year), but I get the feeling (from looking over VIA's numbers) that the seasonality of that ridership has been getting rather extreme. Still, it's a pity that they can't maintain tthe services at this point.
Did I miss a memo? Last I knew there was no cafe car on the corridor trains. Only a snack cart with limited items for sale. If you want anything more, then you need to be thinking Business Class.
Additionally, Ottawa is not the primary corridor. The major corridor is Montreal-Toronto, followed I believe by Montreal-Quebec City.
Additionally, Ottawa is not the primary corridor. The major corridor is Montreal-Toronto, followed I believe by Montreal-Quebec City.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
If this keep going on then VIA will actually end up only serving isolated communities. Just like Mexico! The only Mexican intercity pax route with reliable, regular service is the one through Copper Canyon. Nothing else!
I hope that VIA will not turn into a similar disaster!hboy:
I hope that VIA will not turn into a similar disaster!
hboy:
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
In the corridor, if it's an LRC consists, it's all "revenue". There are no separate Cafe or Lounge LRC cars. They are either Coach or Business Class cars.
Same for HEP consists: Coaches and Business Class cars only. No Cafe or Lounge cars.
If it's a REN consist. There will also be a Service Car with a lounge area for Business Class passengers.
You can find examples of all types of cars here:
http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
Several of the Montreal <>Toronto trains now run via Ottawa. Just stay on board during the brief stop in Ottawa then continue on.
Both of my trains were this, so I was lumping the "direct" and the "via Ottawa" trains into the TWO-MTR corridor. Mind you, it's a bit like running a WAS-NYP train via HAR, but it does cover more of the province with service to the big cities.
My trains were LRC (I think; it as amusing, having the BC car still labeled "VIA 1"); is there any indication of where they use the LRCs vs. the Rens?
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I heard that the equipment is hidden in the URL when you book online. Forgot the details.
At one time it used to be easily found on the VIA site, but I don't see it anymore. However, if you go look at the baggage policies, located here, on the fourth page there is a table indicating how many bags you're allowed by train based upon the various VIA trains. The Rens only allow for 1 carryon, everything else must be checked. And the Table shows which trains are Rens. Everything else on the corridor is LRC and allows 2 carryons.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
No more HEP cars on the Corridor?
G
Gord
Guest
Yes, Budd HEP's are still on some runs but interors are almost the same as LRC.
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Sorry, but I've got to disagree with you. I hadn't realized it until NSVIA put up his other topic, but I rode in an LRC VIA 1 car (now BC) a few years back and hated it. Didn't like the car and the crew wasn't exemplary either. However, I clearly just rode in a HEP VIA 1 (BC) car out of Ottawa yesterday. While I wasn't thrilled with the lack of power outlets at my seat, I had so much more leg room than in the LRC, far more comfortable seats than what I remember from the LRC car, plenty of luggage space (which I didn't need since I'd checked 2 of our bags thinking that I'd have no space in an LRC), and a great service crew. So great that I barely minded the fact that the AC kept failing and with temps around 30 Celcius, it did get a bit warm in the car but the Service Manager tried her best to keep resetting things and to keep the AC limping along to Toronto.
B
Bruce
Guest
Agreed about the Budd cars - lots more room - but last time I was in a Budd Via1 car Montréal-Toronto the suspension was much worse than the LRCs and a much more bumpy ride. That said, they have done a good job making the Via1 Budds look like LRCs inside
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I heard some rumours that the Budd cars are getting retired. How many are left, and will they even get pulled off the Canadian?
When the Budd cars go, the Canadian goes.
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
Haven’t heard any rumors at all about the Budd fleet being retired. Most of the original cars from the CPR, about 150 including 69 Manor and Chateau Sleepers, 14 Parks and 15 Skylines are still in service and a lot have been renovated recently……. some even being rebuilt for the new Deluxe service to start next year on the Canadian.
VIA acquired additional Budd equipment from the US (some former Amtrak) around 1990 and rebuilt them with LRC like interiors for corridor service. (this was the HEP II program)
Here’s VIA’s Fleet info:
http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
I know, Sacrilegious for a railfan……but recently after riding the Ocean then continuing on the Canadian, how I wished the option of a modern smooth riding Renaissance Sleeper was available on the Canadian compared to the shake, rattle, vibrate of that old Manor I was now in.
NorthCoastHiawatha
OBS Chief
I don't see that happening, I believe VIA spent quite a bit of money refurbishing a number of Budd cars just last year. I believe the Skyline, Parks, Manor Sleepers and Diners were included. The Chateau series cars however were not, I believe they are only used, on a regular bases, on the "Hudson Bay"...excuse me Winnipeg-Churchill train now, but will back on the "Chalaur" once the bridge work is completed. They are also used on the "Canadian" during peak travel times. So if any of the Budd cars were to be retired, it would most likely be the Chateau sleepers, as they have a large surplus. I believe VIA still owns all 29 originally purchased by the Canadian Pacific. The rumour also maybe about the corridor budd cars that VIA acquired from Amtrak back in the early 90s. As the Southern Ontario routes they were being used on have been cut back dramatically.
To answers your the question of how many are left.
Of the original Canadian Pacific order
40 of 42 Manor Sleepers (two were damage one in 1987 and 1998)
29 of 29 Chateau Sleepers
13 of 18 Diners
16 of 18 "Skyline Domes"
14 of 18 "Park cars"
I don't have an accurate account of the coaches or baggage car, but suffice to say a large number of original CP equipment remains.
jis
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Wasn't one or two of the current Park cars actually obtained from D&RGW by VIA?
