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Turboliner Trains to be disposed of


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#1 afigg

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:09 PM

Saw the news that Gov. Cuomo of NY put out a press release today announcing the Turboliners and all the parts and components are to disposed of. The state has been spending $150K a year to storage the trains and parts, so the stuff goes up for sale. Probably most of it will get scrap value only.

I do have to note that the Governor's office sure takes a lot of credit for the HSIPR grants, many of which were awarded before he took office. <ahem>

Extended excerpt from the press release:

Albany, NY (May 31, 2012)

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced plans to dispose of outdated, obsolete and non-functioning trains that have been sitting idle in a weed filled industrial park in Glenville. In addition, millions of dollars of unused and unneeded replacement train parts that have been stored in a warehouse in Rotterdam will also be sold. Taxpayers will save more than $150,000 in yearly lease costs as well as benefit from the proceeds from the sale and disposition of the equipment.

"I have repeatedly said that state government must be more efficient and must stop wasting taxpayer money," said Governor Cuomo. "In this case, millions of dollars of taxpayer money were used to buy obsolete equipment, and hundreds of thousands more spent to store it. This is exactly why we are scouring through the operations of every agency - to make sure cases like this are found and stopped."

The trains were part of a high speed rail program that was launched in 1998 and was supposed to provide faster service between Albany and New York City. Originally built in 1976, seven train cars were supposed to be rehabilitated and upgraded for $70 million as part of the $185 million project. Two trains were upgraded and put into service for a short period in 2003. But poor planning and engineering problems made the trains unusable and the program was stopped. Since then four of the trains – each consisting of two locomotives, a café car, and two passenger cars have been decaying in an industrial rail yard. Today, these types of trains are considered obsolete, with none in service in the United States, and are used in only a handful of countries around the world.

The trains were identified for disposition during our ongoing review of New York state agencies—a review meant to root out waste. At the Governor’s direction, the Office of General Services (OGS) will oversee the sale and disposal of the locomotives, cars and unneeded rail parts located at the Rotterdam and Scotia Industrial Parks. OGS will engage a technology parts broker to assess the value and condition of the trains and the parts, and to manage the sale and disposition of the equipment. The trains may have to be sold for scrap, depending on the outcome of the evaluation. Industry experts will help determine how best to sell the equipment by the end of the year.

The locomotives and train cars, in various stages of disrepair, have been stored at a facility in Scotia, Schenectady County, at an annual cost of $58,000. The unneeded train parts are warehoused in Rotterdam, also in Schenectady County, at an annual cost of $95,000. New York state has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for leasing spaces to store this equipment.

The millions of dollars of train parts stored at the warehouse would fit into more than 100 tractor trailer trucks and include:
•4 large turbine engines
•4 medium sized turbine engines
•1 used medium sized turbine engine
•8 train transmissions
•8 new large electric generators
•HVAC systems
•Hundreds of seat frames, cushions and upholstery
•Dozens of new train wheels and brake rotors



#2 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:27 PM

I thought these train sets have been up for sale, for many years.
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#3 railiner

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

While I have enjoyed riding them back when they were in service, I think it's about time to stop this wasteful expenditure, so good news overall......
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#4 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:33 PM

Amtrak should really quit doing useless tests with HSTs, only to have them fail, get abandoned, and eventually scrapped.

They might as well just abandone the idea of HSTs until they can find a good design.

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#5 MARC Rider

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

Amtrak should really quit doing useless tests with HSTs, only to have them fail, get abandoned, and eventually scrapped.

They might as well just abandone the idea of HSTs until they can find a good design.


Um, they ran Metroliners for over 30 years, and I think most of the equipment is still in service (as business class cars on the Northeast Regional.

The Acela Express trainsets are still in service, they have been for 10 years, and they've been pretty successful.

OK, it seem s that turbine trains aren't the wave of the future, after all, but Amtrak's High speed service isn't a total waste.

Speaking of the turboliners, I was riding an Empire Service train to Syracuse in 2004 when the loco conked out somewhere north of Hudson. We were rescued by the next train on the schedule, which happened to be one of the refurbished turboliners. They took us into Albany, where Amtrak had assembled a new train for those of us going further west. I'm glad I got a chance to ride of the turboliners, but let's face it, this was 1970's technology, it makes sense to move forward.

#6 PerRock

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:28 PM

They Tested the ICE1(or was it 2?) train; and their still running over in Germany & Switzerland. The IC3s Amtrak tested are still running in some Middle Eastern country. We still have Series VI Talgos running on the North West Coast; and are order more of the newer Series 8 Talgos. The LRC cars are still used by VIA (albeit being pulled by P42s, not the Power Cars). I think all-in-all most 'High Speed' trains Amtrak tests are still being used around the world.

Personally I don't see whats wrong with ordering a bunch of Velaros from Siemens and run them along our corridors, they've been in use in Germany for quite some time now & are well proven, as a number of other countries have placed orders for them as well. We could also get TGVs or Shinkansens, both are well proven designs that work. However when it comes down to it (and cost & politics aside) the biggest hurdle we have with HSR is our infrastructure; it's just not set up for HSR.

peter

PS, for got the X2000, that ran for years (and may still be) over in it's 'home' country.
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#7 benjibear

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

Have any of these been preserved by any museum? It would be nice to save one set, at least as a non-operational static display.

#8 AlanB

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:38 PM

Amtrak should really quit doing useless tests with HSTs, only to have them fail, get abandoned, and eventually scrapped.

They might as well just abandone the idea of HSTs until they can find a good design.


It wasn't really Amtrak's idea. It was the State of NY that wanted the Turboliner's refurbished and running at higher speeds. Amtrak went along for the ride and did share some of the costs. But again, this was NY State's baby, not Amtrak's!
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#9 AlanB

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:40 PM

Have any of these been preserved by any museum? It would be nice to save one set, at least as a non-operational static display.


Not that I'm aware of, but that could well be where NY State sends 1 set. And Amtrak still has the 3 sets in their possession to my knowledge. I haven't heard of any buyers for the ones that were redone.
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#10 Anderson

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

It really is a shame that, at the very least, the cars in the sets couldn't be rearranged into something that could be used (even at conventional speeds) with regular locomotives. I know the issues with waivers and whatnot, which is why I'm not flatly advocating it, but given where the numbers are going on ridership and the lack of new single-level equipment, it is a shame.
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#11 jis

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:18 PM

Those cars have serious rusting and other problems and they really are not usable without spending an enormous amount of money on them first. I'd rather that that money was used tog et new equipment instead.

Edited by jis, 31 May 2012 - 08:20 PM.


#12 The Davy Crockett

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:00 PM

... And Amtrak still has the 3 sets in their possession to my knowledge. I haven't heard of any buyers for the ones that were redone.




Okay... Amtrak sends them to WI, WI sends the Talgos to WA, but what does WA send to Amtrak to complete the trade? :unsure:

:lol:

Edited by The Davy Crockett, 31 May 2012 - 09:02 PM.

I wish I was a headlight on a northbound train.

#13 jis

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:02 PM


... And Amtrak still has the 3 sets in their possession to my knowledge. I haven't heard of any buyers for the ones that were redone.




Okay... Amtrak sends them to WI, WI sends the Talgos to WA, but what does WA send to NY to complete the trade? :unsure:

:lol:

Cheese :lol:

#14 CHamilton

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:37 PM


... And Amtrak still has the 3 sets in their possession to my knowledge. I haven't heard of any buyers for the ones that were redone.

Okay... Amtrak sends them to WI, WI sends the Talgos to WA, but what does WA send to Amtrak to complete the trade? :unsure:

:lol:

Well, Seattle is getting ready to replace these...
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Edited by CHamilton, 31 May 2012 - 09:39 PM.

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#15 transit54

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:49 PM

The NY Times has picked the story up:

http://www.nytimes.c...il-project.html

#16 Long Train Runnin'

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:29 AM

I can tell you that there is at least one set in Bear, DE as of 4 hours ago. Its a newer set with an Acela like paint scheme, but I believe its owned by Amtrak so I'm not sure what its future holds.
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#17 trainviews

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:06 AM

They Tested the ICE1(or was it 2?) train; and their still running over in Germany & Switzerland. The IC3s Amtrak tested are still running in some Middle Eastern country. We still have Series VI Talgos running on the North West Coast; and are order more of the newer Series 8 Talgos. The LRC cars are still used by VIA (albeit being pulled by P42s, not the Power Cars). I think all-in-all most 'High Speed' trains Amtrak tests are still being used around the world.

Personally I don't see whats wrong with ordering a bunch of Velaros from Siemens and run them along our corridors, they've been in use in Germany for quite some time now & are well proven, as a number of other countries have placed orders for them as well. We could also get TGVs or Shinkansens, both are well proven designs that work. However when it comes down to it (and cost & politics aside) the biggest hurdle we have with HSR is our infrastructure; it's just not set up for HSR.

peter

PS, for got the X2000, that ran for years (and may still be) over in it's 'home' country.


Yup the X2000 are still the premium train in Sweden, and I can see them in front of my windows several times every day, pulling into Copenhagen here in neighboring Denmark, as they also serve the Swenden-bound long distance trains here. I do I believe though that replacements are now on order.

As for IC3 was that the Danish built IC3 that was tested by Amtrak or is it a typo for ICE3? As for the IC3's with their characteristic flat rubber noses, they were running in Israel, where I believe they are now being phased out. Here in DK they are still the main Intercity rolling stock due to the totally botched and almost a decade delayed IC4 order (our own version of the Turboliner debacle, except for billions more expensive, and the pols haven't been willing to recognize the sorry state of things yet and scrap them)

#18 AutoTrDvr

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:36 AM

Saw the news that Gov. Cuomo of NY put out a press release today announcing the Turboliners and all the parts and components are to disposed of. The state has been spending $150K a year to storage the trains and parts, so the stuff goes up for sale. Probably most of it will get scrap value only.



I fondly recall the Turboliners from when they were used between Chicago and the Detroit area. I also recall seeing a Turboliner set in (of all places), NY Penn station! :o A very rare occurrence. I guess it was part of that experimental rebuilding program. You could smell the jet fumes for hours on end... :D

#19 jis

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:48 AM


Saw the news that Gov. Cuomo of NY put out a press release today announcing the Turboliners and all the parts and components are to disposed of. The state has been spending $150K a year to storage the trains and parts, so the stuff goes up for sale. Probably most of it will get scrap value only.



I fondly recall the Turboliners from when they were used between Chicago and the Detroit area. I also recall seeing a Turboliner set in (of all places), NY Penn station! :o A very rare occurrence. I guess it was part of that experimental rebuilding program. You could smell the jet fumes for hours on end... :D

These Turboliners that are being disposed off operated between New York and Albany under the auspices of Amtrak for many years, and were a common sight at Penn Station. They even ran to Montreal for a while. Some of them were originals, and some were rebuilds of those that ran in the midwest before (RTG IIs). They were naturally all equipped with third rail electric traction capabilities to operate first out of Grand Central and later out of Penn Station. Normally they did not operate under turbine power in the tunnels.

#20 afigg

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:53 AM

I can tell you that there is at least one set in Bear, DE as of 4 hours ago. Its a newer set with an Acela like paint scheme, but I believe its owned by Amtrak so I'm not sure what its future holds.

Eventually, it will probably end up looking like this for a short time. Then it will be sent to the smelter.

Roughly how many pounds of steel is there in a RTL Turboliner trainset? :o



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