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The New Pullman Sleeper prices are now posted


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#101 PRR 60

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Try this link:

Travel by Pullman

#102 ScottRu

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

This is a fun conversation. JIS's concept of the "Law of Exponential Whine Intensity" was really a highlight for me!

#103 ScottRu

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

And PRR60, thanks... that link works!

#104 Steve4031

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

I wonder when the regular service starts in 2013. There are only a few trips available for right now.

#105 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

Wow, I love the full-length dome! The problem is that IC never had any! Also, it's not the full expierience without the glory of a 15-car train with steam heating and cab units! Close, very close, though!

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#106 me_little_me

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

Resurrecting an old topic..

But, does anyone have some first-hand knowledge on how this venture is working out? Considering I've not heard a peep about Iowa Pacific's Pullman service in some months, I got curious. They are selling accommodations, and the next scheduled departure is from Chicago this Wednesday (Nov. 14th) enroute to New Orleans (I imagine hitched to the back of CONO.) According to the website, all choices of accommodation on that trip are still available... I'm not sure that is a good sign.

I would be hesitant about trusting their web site yet. As a lark, yesterday I tried to see what the reservation procedure was. I picked Nov 14 from Chicago. There was A type compartment for $1900+ (for 2), B type (for 2) for $0.00 then C & D for $800/$500 (if I remember correctly). So I picked B. It actually let me select it then wanted to know if I wanted electronic ticketing ($0.00) or mailed tickets ($25.00). I chose electronic. Then it took me to the pay page. At that point I decided not to enter my CC info even though the price was $0.00. What would happen if I did?

#107 jimhudson

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

It's a nice looking O,peration for sure and IF one can Afford it, probably Worth it! Personally I think putting the $$ into trips on the Ocean and the Canadian would be more value for the dollar! The CONO and the LSL are not the best Routes Amtrak runs, wonder why they didnt use the Zephyr, Chief or the Empire Builder for these Land Cruises??

Disclaimer: Wish I could afford to ride anyway! :giggle:

Edited by jimhudson, 11 November 2012 - 11:17 AM.

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#108 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:31 PM

It's a nice looking O,peration for sure and IF one can Afford it, probably Worth it! Personally I think putting the $$ into trips on the Ocean and the Canadian would be more value for the dollar! The CONO and the LSL are not the best Routes Amtrak runs, wonder why they didnt use the Zephyr, Chief or the Empire Builder for these Land Cruises??

My thoughts exactly Jim!

At first glance I would think I'm among the sort of people they're trying to tempt with this level of service, but their current routing options are of no interest to me whatsoever. A big part of what makes The Canadian worth the cash outlay is that the natural beauty of the route is every bit as impressive as the hardware that plies the route. It's a great package that goes together well and helps lift your money right out of your wallet. CZ, SC, EB, or CS? You can bet I'd probably be among the first to register. But the CONO and LSL? Nah, I don't have any need or desire to ride those routes in luxury. Or coach for that matter. Just not something I'm interested in.

Any views expressed are my own and do not represent the views of my employer, parent companies, partners, or subsidiaries.

Over 50,000 people just like you recently signed a petition to expand high speed passenger rail in the United States of America.

Long live The Coast Starlight, The California Zephyr, The Empire Builder, The Southwest Chief, and The Canadian.


#109 Gratt

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

It's a nice looking O,peration for sure and IF one can Afford it, probably Worth it! Personally I think putting the $$ into trips on the Ocean and the Canadian would be more value for the dollar! The CONO and the LSL are not the best Routes Amtrak runs, wonder why they didnt use the Zephyr, Chief or the Empire Builder for these Land Cruises??

Disclaimer: Wish I could afford to ride anyway! :giggle:



Agreed, I think such a premimum service would do nicely on the "out west" trains like the CZ and the SWC. The reason though I bet they picked the CONO and the LSL is that a shorter trip allows equpiment to be turned and used more often. It also makes it easier to keep food stocked and fresh on each trip.

So I guess they are betting they will get "more bang for their buck" on these routes. Though I really hope the next line will either be the Card or CZ

#110 afigg

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

It's a nice looking O,peration for sure and IF one can Afford it, probably Worth it! Personally I think putting the $$ into trips on the Ocean and the Canadian would be more value for the dollar! The CONO and the LSL are not the best Routes Amtrak runs, wonder why they didnt use the Zephyr, Chief or the Empire Builder for these Land Cruises??

The single night trip costs less to operate and aims at a different travel market than a 2 night Chicago to west coast service. The prices for a 2 night trip for CHI to LAX, based on their current prices, might be in the $2K to $5K range, which is a lot. The economics of and market for a 2 night trip, for what they are doing, has to be shakier than the one night service. At the prices they are charging, they are not going after the railfan - although there will be some who book the service, but the high income and wealthy individuals who live in NYC and Chicago who will take a luxury overnight train in place of flying to CHI or NYC.

I wonder why they started with the Chicago to New Orleans route, but that may have been the easier route to start and allows them to get the kinks out of their service before starting up the more lucrative CHI-NYP run. If the market is serving cities which have a lot of people with money, Miami has that. If the Chicago to NYC service does well, I would think that a seasonal NYC/Philly/DC to Orlando & Miami Pullman service on the Silver Meteor might work. Yes, Pullman is currently operating out of Chicago, but could run a peak season operation out of NYC for interim periods.

My take on the Pullman Rail Journeys is that we should not look at it like a rail fan, but instead at where are the cities with a significant proportion of high net worth or high income individuals who have enough leisure time that they will consider taking a day to travel on the train for fun. NYC and Chicago make the cut on having enough wealthy people.

#111 TraneMan

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

Are they pulled behind the CONO, or do they have their own loco?
 

Amtrak Train travel.

Empire Builder 15,753
Silver Meteor = 668
Capital Limited = 780
Hiawatha Service = 172

Cascade = 312
Lincoln Service= 640 
 
Total = 18,325

 

Routes completed

Empire Builder 7 and 8.

Capital Limited 29.

Hiawatha. 
 
First travel was 1990.

(updated 7/16/14)


#112 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

Well, I have no idea who they're targeting right now. Wealthy people would presumably be able to charter a car wherever they wanted to go. This service won't really cater to folks like that. Rail fans may not be rich but they might be willing to save up and splurge on a luxury rail trip as we've seen in numerous trip reports on this very forum. Folks like me, who aren't rich but have little or no debt to worry about can afford these sorts of trips by controlling spending elsewhere in the budget. Once you start traveling internationally $2K - $5K doesn't sound quite so outlandish anymore. My vacation time is usually in short supply but I've still managed to take weekend trips as far away as Tokyo as it's much easier to get a Friday and Monday off than a full week. In any case my guess is that this service is intended for professionals who are curious about passenger rail and want a step up from the current sleeper class. Another theory is that this service is intended to help capture sales of folks who book late and find the Amtrak cars sold out. Unfortunately, since Amtrak apparently has no reservation agreement with the Pullman operation I'm doubtful most folks who encounter sold out trains will even be aware that this option exists. Seems like some sort of commission or revenue sharing arrangement would be highly preferable to the current scenario where folks just randomly stumble upon this. Are there any signs or other indicators at the stations where these cars operate?

Any views expressed are my own and do not represent the views of my employer, parent companies, partners, or subsidiaries.

Over 50,000 people just like you recently signed a petition to expand high speed passenger rail in the United States of America.

Long live The Coast Starlight, The California Zephyr, The Empire Builder, The Southwest Chief, and The Canadian.


#113 Blackwolf

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:21 PM

Agreed, I think such a premimum service would do nicely on the "out west" trains like the CZ and the SWC. The reason though I bet they picked the CONO and the LSL is that a shorter trip allows equpiment to be turned and used more often. It also makes it easier to keep food stocked and fresh on each trip.

So I guess they are betting they will get "more bang for their buck" on these routes. Though I really hope the next line will either be the Card or CZ


I generally agree with this as the main reasons for choosing this route first. The CONO is also one of Amtrak's shortest trains in terms of consist length, which also plays into the decision when adding an additional 6 heavyweight cars on the tail. As it is, Amtrak is placing a second locomotive at the point when hauling the Pullman cars, where-as the CONO would normally only run with one. When it comes time to run on the LSL, things could be interesting. I'm seeing three locomotives on the point very soon, including two dual-modes into NYP.

Maybe, if it proves to be a successful venture, we'll see the Western LD trains being added into the mix. Lets say, 5 years from now? They will need to refurbish more than the handfull of cars they have currently. Might need to have a fleet of 20 or more, which will not be cheap (or easy to pry away from current PV owners!)

Are they pulled behind the CONO, or do they have their own loco?


They have to use Amtrak for a myriad of reasons. For the foreseeable future (if they continue to exist more than a few years and then fizzle out like AOE) the Pullman service will be permanently hitched to the back of a standard Amtrak consist like a red-headed stepchild.
Amtrak
Capitol Corridor (too many times to count!); Coast Starlight (x20); California Zephyr (x5); Empire Builder (x2); Lake Shore Limited (x3); Maple Leaf (x1); Adirondack (x2); Cascades (x1); Pacific Surfliner (x5); San Joaquin (x7); Capitol Limited (x1); Cardinal (x1)

VIA Rail
Ocean (x3); Windsor Corridor (x2); The Canadian (x1)

#114 cirdan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:18 AM

I'm surprised there has been very little news on this. If IP wants to fill these cars they need to get the message out so as many people as possible find out about it. Aside from RR forums, i have not seen or heard any discussions or announcements.

#115 dlagrua

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

While I applaud Pullman for offering premium passenger rail service, it seems that they are doing very little to market it. Currently the only service is from Chicago to New Orleans. Will the CONO route be enough to support future market growth? IMO the LSL route would have been a better starting point. It's often hard to get a sleeper on that train, the sleepers often sell out and high bucket fares are the norm. There is also a large amount of rich people living in Manhattan and that marketplace is loaded with high end/upscale hotels and restaurants. I wonder how the service is doing on the CONO route.
I always believed that the future of Amtrak, included replacing their sleepers (on some routes) with those owned and run by an outside service (or selling some routes off to private railroads) but there is no indication that this is even being considered. With the huge deficit and fiscal crisis that Washington has created, (and now has to deal with) anything may be possible. Time will tell. .

Edited by dlagrua, 12 November 2012 - 09:35 AM.


#116 Just-Thinking-51

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

My understanding is....

The current runs on the City of New Orleans is for training. They do plan to use this route for service.

The New York and Chicago route that has not seen a train, will be the Capitol Limited route east to Pittsburgh then connect with the Pennsylvanian to New York. Still waiting on that switch in Pittsburgh. Also may change if the Lake Shore Limited flips with the Capitol Limited.

Iowa Pacific owns over 100 passenger cars in various stages of renovation or regular-use assignments.


Also one thinks the marketing for these trains is been done to non-railfan sites / ways. I think the few posting done on fan web sites by the Owners are bring the need buzz to this venture. However the main target are not foamers.

Side note did anyone see the full page Ad for the Rocky Mountaineer in the USA Today newspaper.




#117 afigg

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

Well, I have no idea who they're targeting right now. Wealthy people would presumably be able to charter a car wherever they wanted to go. This service won't really cater to folks like that. Rail fans may not be rich but they might be willing to save up and splurge on a luxury rail trip as we've seen in numerous trip reports on this very forum. Folks like me, who aren't rich but have little or no debt to worry about can afford these sorts of trips by controlling spending elsewhere in the budget. Once you start traveling internationally $2K - $5K doesn't sound quite so outlandish anymore. My vacation time is usually in short supply but I've still managed to take weekend trips as far away as Tokyo as it's much easier to get a Friday and Monday off than a full week. In any case my guess is that this service is intended for professionals who are curious about passenger rail and want a step up from the current sleeper class. Another theory is that this service is intended to help capture sales of folks who book late and find the Amtrak cars sold out. Unfortunately, since Amtrak apparently has no reservation agreement with the Pullman operation I'm doubtful most folks who encounter sold out trains will even be aware that this option exists. Seems like some sort of commission or revenue sharing arrangement would be highly preferable to the current scenario where folks just randomly stumble upon this. Are there any signs or other indicators at the stations where these cars operate?

I was not writing about the really wealthy people who would charter a private biz jet to travel between NYC and CHI. Or own their own biz jet. The market for the Pullman are the higher income and comfortably off types who can afford to pay $2K or $4K without worrying about it. NYC has more millionaires than any other place in the US by a respectable margin as I recall.

With the high prices and premium service, I don't see Pullman getting that much business from people switching because the LSL or CONO is sold out. I would expect that ads for Pullman will be on the Amtrak website once the Pullman service is fully operational. Whether Pullman would pay for a link option in the Amtrak reservation system when someone enters CHI<->NYP and CHI<->NOL for the dates that the Pullman cars are running, don't know. The Pullman service is still in the early stages, we will find out more as it rolls out. Then we will find out whether it can succeed or not over the next year or so.

I expect there will be changes in how they operate such as selling rooms to/from intermediate stops on the routes, Memphis for CONO. The CHI-NYP situation is more complex because Pullman is apparently looking at running on both the LSL and CL/Pennsylvanian combo. If the Three Rivers or a Broadway Limited were still running, I think that would be the preferred route for the Pullman service because they could sell rooms to/from NYC, Philly, and perhaps Pittsburgh. There are a lot of well off people in the Philadelphia area.

#118 AlanB

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

I always believed that the future of Amtrak, included replacing their sleepers (on some routes) with those owned and run by an outside service (or selling some routes off to private railroads) but there is no indication that this is even being considered. With the huge deficit and fiscal crisis that Washington has created, (and now has to deal with) anything may be possible. Time will tell. .


Why would Amtrak or smart Government ever consider such an idea when it would increase the loss for Amtrak by doing so?

As NARP showed in their study from a few years ago, that the cost per passenger mile for Amtrak is $0.1870; if Amtrak takes away the sleepers the cost for those in coach was $0.1888 per passenger mile. In other words, getting rid of the sleepers would increase the needed subsidies for those in coach.

And the loss of the sleepers would probably also mean the loss of the dining car, which might decrease ridership in coach and further increase the subsidy.
Alan,

Take care and take trains!

#119 cirdan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

I was not writing about the really wealthy people who would charter a private biz jet to travel between NYC and CHI. Or own their own biz jet. The market for the Pullman are the higher income and comfortably off types who can afford to pay $2K or $4K without worrying about it. NYC has more millionaires than any other place in the US by a respectable margin as I recall.


Just as a matter of interest, are there still many people who own and travel in their own PV?

That probably compares to a private jet cost-wise, but would take a more railroad-inclined person.

#120 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

Just as a matter of interest, are there still many people who own and travel in their own PV? That probably compares to a private jet cost-wise, but would take a more railroad-inclined person.


Private varnish is similar in cost to a nice house. A private jet is similar in cost to DOZENS of nice houses.

Edited by Texas Sunset, 12 November 2012 - 03:56 PM.

Any views expressed are my own and do not represent the views of my employer, parent companies, partners, or subsidiaries.

Over 50,000 people just like you recently signed a petition to expand high speed passenger rail in the United States of America.

Long live The Coast Starlight, The California Zephyr, The Empire Builder, The Southwest Chief, and The Canadian.




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