25 replies to this topic

[johnny.menhennet]

Sorry I haven't put up more of my trip yet, I haven't had time. Anyway, last night as #448 pulled into South Station at 9:30P, I saw 67 departing. As it was leaving, I saw it headed by a P42DC. I assume that this is not typical, but was it because of the fires along the tracks in CT, or for anything else?

[OBS]

Sorry I haven't put up more of my trip yet, I haven't had time. Anyway, last night as #448 pulled into South Station at 9:30P, I saw 67 departing. As it was leaving, I saw it headed by a P42DC. I assume that this is not typical, but was it because of the fires along the tracks in CT, or for anything else?

It is typical, I assume the swap is made at NHV. I am not sure why other than to reduce demand on electrics?

[jis]

Sorry I haven't put up more of my trip yet, I haven't had time. Anyway, last night as #448 pulled into South Station at 9:30P, I saw 67 departing. As it was leaving, I saw it headed by a P42DC. I assume that this is not typical, but was it because of the fires along the tracks in CT, or for anything else?

It is typical, I assume the swap is made at NHV. I am not sure why other than to reduce demand on electrics?

The reason is that the 25kV catenary is sometimes taken out of service at night for maintenance.

67 sometimes gets really weird consists. One time I was on one that had an additional cafe car, two baggage cars 2 AEM-7s and a P42! Go figure.

[afigg]

Sorry I haven't put up more of my trip yet, I haven't had time. Anyway, last night as #448 pulled into South Station at 9:30P, I saw 67 departing. As it was leaving, I saw it headed by a P42DC. I assume that this is not typical, but was it because of the fires along the tracks in CT, or for anything else?

It is typical, I assume the swap is made at NHV. I am not sure why other than to reduce demand on electrics?

They will use P42 diesels on #66, #67 when the catenary is shut down overnight east of NHV for track or catenary work. There are a number of track and bridge projects underway on the Shore Line East including the Niantic River bridge replacement project, electrification of passing sidings and station upgrades for the SLE service expansion, replacement of the railroad bridge over Rt. 1 in Branford.

[Shawn Ryu]

So I assume the equipments are changed in order to get in to NYP at some point? In New Haven?

[jis]

So I assume the equipments are changed in order to get in to NYP at some point? In New Haven?

Usually yes. Though on very very rare occasions a P42 has been towed through Penn Station too.

[Shawn Ryu]

So I assume the equipments are changed in order to get in to NYP at some point? In New Haven?

Usually yes. Though on very very rare occasions a P42 has been towed through Penn Station too.

Towed by what? 3rd rail Gennie?

[Dangerous Johnny O'D]

This may clear up the confusion about what the P42DC is doing. It travels the tracks from Springfield to New Haven as this section of Amtrak is not electrified. Thus the need for such an engine

Folks traveling on the Vermonter always experience a "jolt' in New Haven, as one engine is de-coupled, and the P42DC is attached

[SubwayNut]

An AEM7 (HHP-8s) or two would come out of Sunnyside to pull that train through the East River and than Hudson River tunnels. I know that after the drop third rail shoes location on the Empire Connection at about 41 Street (there is even a sign) a catenary also begins as a back-up to allow AEM7s or HHP-8s to pull a train into Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in case one leaves Albany without P32AC-DM (since the locomotives are exchanged there on the Lake Shore, Adirondack and Maple Leaf usually because there are only 17 Genesis P32 AC-DM in existence). The Genesis I also believe don't have that much motive power. I have a photo of the Lake Shore at Croton-Harmon 8 years ago with a P42 in the lead and have heard that was the procedure for that. Now that I think more about it, a P32 Dual-Mode Genesis also can't go through the Hudson River tunnels since there's no third rail so it would have to be an electric locomotive.

66/67 is the overnight 'Night Owl' Regional and runs via the electrified Shoreline Route, not Inland route via Hartford and Springfield. Amtrak hasn't run Regionals via the inland route via Springfield all the way to Boston since the last weekend trip was discontinued in 2004.
On the Vermonter it's two engines de-coupled actually. It uses two P42s on the St Albans to New Haven section (unless its gotten its cab car back, saw it a few weeks ago with two) replaced with one AEM7 or HHP-8 in New Haven

[OBS]

An AEM7 (HHP-8s) or two would come out of Sunnyside to pull that train through the East River and than Hudson River tunnels. I know that after the drop third rail shoes location on the Empire Connection at about 41 Street (there is even a sign) a catenary also begins as a back-up to allow AEM7s or HHP-8s to pull a train into Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in case one leaves Albany without P32AC-DM (since the locomotives are exchanged there on the Lake Shore, Adirondack and Maple Leaf usually because there are only 17 Genesis P32 AC-DM in existence). The Genesis I also believe don't have that much motive power. I have a photo of the Lake Shore at Croton-Harmon 8 years ago with a P42 in the lead and have heard that was the procedure for that. Now that I think more about it, a P32 Dual-Mode Genesis also can't go through the Hudson River tunnels since there's no third rail so it would have to be an electric locomotive.

66/67 is the overnight 'Night Owl' Regional and runs via the electrified Shoreline Route, not Inland route via Hartford and Springfield. Amtrak hasn't run Regionals via the inland route via Springfield all the way to Boston since the last weekend trip was discontinued in 2004.
On the Vermonter it's two engines de-coupled actually. It uses two P42s on the St Albans to New Haven section (unless its gotten its cab car back, saw it a few weeks ago with two) replaced with one AEM7 or HHP-8 in New Haven

No cab car anymore, those have all been shuffled over to the Harrisburg trains.

[jis]

So I assume the equipments are changed in order to get in to NYP at some point? In New Haven?

Usually yes. Though on very very rare occasions a P42 has been towed through Penn Station too.

Towed by what? 3rd rail Gennie?

An AEM-7 or HHP-8. No one said that power was turned off at all of NYP and all tunnels.

This may clear up the confusion about what the P42DC is doing. It travels the tracks from Springfield to New Haven as this section of Amtrak is not electrified. Thus the need for such an engine

Power is turned off in short sections between New Haven and Boston on the electrified Shore Line to do construction and maintenance work at night at times, requiring the only overnight train - the 66/67 to use diesel power between New Haven and Boston. This has nothing to do with the fact that the Springfield line is not electrified. That is irrelevant to this discussion of 66/67 being pulled by diesel.

Edited by jis, 11 April 2012 - 07:09 AM.

[NE933]

Once I tied a rope onto a Genesis powered train whose power went down and had to be Sunnyside Yard'ed, and hauled the whole thing onto the East River Tunnel waiting tracks. Once the green came, the immense power of my mind yet to be officially discovered mixed with the powers of Amtrak and the engines howled alive, glowing with divine energy as we flew threw the tunnels and down the line. It was a sight not to be missed.

[TCRT]

Sorry I haven't put up more of my trip yet, I haven't had time. Anyway, last night as #448 pulled into South Station at 9:30P, I saw 67 departing. As it was leaving, I saw it headed by a P42DC. I assume that this is not typical, but was it because of the fires along the tracks in CT, or for anything else?

It is typical, I assume the swap is made at NHV. I am not sure why other than to reduce demand on electrics?

The reason is that the 25kV catenary is sometimes taken out of service at night for maintenance.

67 sometimes gets really weird consists. One time I was on one that had an additional cafe car, two baggage cars 2 AEM-7s and a P42! Go figure.

I see 67 leave about once a week, and it's got a P42 (or two) instead of an electric quite a bit of the time. I've also seen it leave with a Viewliner at least once.

[Donctor]

I've also seen it leave with a Viewliner at least once.

If 448's sleeper comes into Southampton with some sort of problem, that's the way to get it to maintenance. (This may require a 23-hour sit in the yard, and will often require Sunnyside to put a third sleeper on 49 ND.)

[the_traveler]

As said, they use diesels due to cat and other work at night on the northern portion of the NEC. The last time I rode 67 out of KIN, it did have a P-42 on the head. We stopped momentarily outside of Sunnyside and then continued on. AFAIR, the diesel was still on 67 in WAS!

Edited by the_traveler, 11 April 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Blackwolf]

Would it correct to guess that like all MU-capable locomotives, an electric (AEM7, HHP8, the under construction ACS64) can be controlled from the cab of a diesel (P40/42 and the like) or vise-versa?

On a similar front, I have to wonder if Bombardier has approached Amtrak at all with their ALP-45DP locomotive? Having both a diesel Primer Mover and a pantograph-driven electric mode seems to be a no-brainer for advantages. When it comes time to replace the GE P42 AC-DM, it would seem pretty foolish for Amtrak to go for more shoe-pickup powered Dual-Modes, when just about all of their electrically-powered ROW is with cantenary.

Edited by Blackwolf, 11 April 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[jis]

Would it correct to guess that like all MU-capable locomotives, an electric (AEM7, HHP8, the under construction ACS64) can be controlled from the cab of a diesel (P40/42 and the like) or vise-versa?

They can as long as the P42 is equipped with controls for the pantograph.

On a similar front, I have to wonder if Bombardier has approached Amtrak at all with their ALP-45DP locomotive?

A senior Amtrak person involved with NEC Capital Program mentioned that they have looked at it and have decided to not look at it any further. BTW, Amtrak is yet to certify them for operation on the NEC. They are waiting for some issues to be resolved first. Amtrak wants something that is considerably lighter, absent which they are happy to just change engines where the catenary ends apparently.

[The Journalist]

Once I tied a rope onto a Genesis powered train whose power went down and had to be Sunnyside Yard'ed, and hauled the whole thing onto the East River Tunnel waiting tracks. Once the green came, the immense power of my mind yet to be officially discovered mixed with the powers of Amtrak and the engines howled alive, glowing with divine energy as we flew threw the tunnels and down the line. It was a sight not to be missed.

Wait....
.
.
.
....what?

[AlanB]

Adirondack and Maple Leaf usually because there are only 17 Genesis P32 AC-DM in existence).

No. Amtrak only owns 17 P32 AC-DM's. There are more than 17 in existence however, as Metro North owns & operates 30 P32 AC-DM's I believe.

The Genesis I also believe don't have that much motive power.

The Genesis series I is technically the P40 and its close cousin the P42. The P40 was the first Genesis engine built, followed by the P32 AC-DM about a year later. The P40 originally was built to provide 4,000 HP, while the P42 had 4,200 hence the 40 & 42. The P32 AC-DM because of the need to have transformers to convert the third rail power has a smaller prime mover and only provides 3,200 HP, again why it's a P32.

However, that's still enough power to pull the current day Lake Shore. Perhaps if it were to ever grow to say a 20 car train Amtrak might have a problem using only one P32 AC-DM, but until then it holds its own.

Now that I think more about it, a P32 Dual-Mode Genesis also can't go through the Hudson River tunnels since there's no third rail so it would have to be an electric locomotive.

Actually the North River tunnels (aka Hudson) do have third rail in the tunnels. It ends very quickly after popping up in NJ and doesn't really provide enough time to start up the diesel engine, so they typically aren't used unless there is an emergency situation. Additionally, since as you noted there are only 17 of them in Amtrak's roster, they don't want them roaming outside the Empire corridor.

66/67 is the overnight 'Night Owl' Regional and runs via the electrified Shoreline Route, not Inland route via Hartford and Springfield. Amtrak hasn't run Regionals via the inland route via Springfield all the way to Boston since the last weekend trip was discontinued in 2004.

True, at least in normal, regularly scheduled service. However, there was one weekend (maybe two) a few years ago during a bridge replacement in CT where Amtrak did run a couple of Regional's via the Inland route so as to not totally cut off service to Boston.

[johnny.menhennet]

I'm passing through Dave's backyard right now (Kingston, RI) as I type this. How frequently does catenary work happen in RI and CT? I ask because as I was departing South Station this morning, I watched 66 pull in with another P42DC. I understand now that it's common, but doesn't the section south of NY need it more right now since so much effort has been put in north of there?