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#81 NE933

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

I am grateful for this post. Back in 1994 I published a book called "Zephyr." Among other things I asked a train chief about gay/lesbian issues and he said the only problem he had with them was assigning rooms to crew members -- he had to be sure that straights wouldn't mind bunking with gays and sometimes had to juggle the assignments. I'm updating the book, and I've wondered how the issue has evolved over the years. This thread has been most illuminating, and I thank all the participants in it.

I read it!! Loved the book, and kept it on my bookcase shelf. Very knowledgeable things you wrote in there, especially things that are not directly pertaining to the operations of a railroad blended with things that are. I remember the excerpts about passenger sexual encounters, along with the upcoming high speed trainset order that went from 26, to twelve, then (I believe) 18. There were supposed to be two fossil fueled trainsets that ultimately become one Acela diesel which then degraded into the JetTrain fiasco.

Well, soon it will be twenty years from your "Zephyr" book. Are you contemplating doing a "Zephyr II"?! I hope?!
;-)

#82 the_traveler

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

I think we all agree that everyone should be treated equally and that these posts are appropriate for this forum, but it seems that the topic has run its course.

I respectfully agree with NE933. If this thread has indeed run it's course, then there would be no more post to the thread. Since it involves Amtrak (both passengers and employees), why should it be closed, unless it gets out of hand?Posted Image

If nobody else makes a post, it will drop down out if sight, and die a slow natural death. I for one am not going to speed things up, unless is is absolutely necessary - which I hope is not necessary.

A training I will go ... !


#83 NE933

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:15 AM

That's not unique hits, meaning that 2,300 different people have not read the topic. I've probably added at least 100 hits myself with all my visits to this topic and the moderating staff probably accounts for at least 200 hits.

Not trying to deflate your enthusiasm, but want to be sure that you understand just what a "hit" means.


Yes! And no, my enthusiasm is not injured; even if we subtracted your 100 and my 100 and divided the 2,100 into the number of AU members who visited, counting them once no matter how many times they hit the thread, I'd still be impressed. Meaning: for hyperbolic metaphor, if one individual visited all two thousand plus times, I'm still enthused. Worried about the person's obsession in that fictional example, but still enthused. Clearly we can deduce scientifically that visitors to this thread are thinking about more than just the trains aspect of Amtrak, which is what author Henry K. described a few moments ago in referencing to his 1994 "Zephyr" book.

#84 Guest_henry kisor_*

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:42 AM

"Zephyr" will be reissued in an ebook edition within a week or 10 days. The bulk of the book remains as written but there will be a long Epilogue that refreshes all (hopefully) the facts and brings up to date the stories of the train crew. There will also be a new selection of photographs. I'm just returning from Emeryville on No. 6 after one more photo mission, and as I write this we've just left Mt. Pleasant, Iowa.

#85 the_traveler

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

"Zephyr" will be reissued in an ebook edition within a week or 10 days. The bulk of the book remains as written but there will be a long Epilogue that refreshes all (hopefully) the facts and brings up to date the stories of the train crew. There will also be a new selection of photographs.

I look forward to it, as I prefer to read ebooks. Will it be on iTunes?Posted Image (I have an iPhone and soon will have an iPad.)

A training I will go ... !


#86 Oldsmoboi

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

I'll pick it up on the Nook if you remind me

#87 Maine Rider

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:11 PM

I am grateful for this post. Back in 1994 I published a book called "Zephyr." Among other things I asked a train chief about gay/lesbian issues and he said the only problem he had with them was assigning rooms to crew members -- he had to be sure that straights wouldn't mind bunking with gays and sometimes had to juggle the assignments. I'm updating the book, and I've wondered how the issue has evolved over the years. This thread has been most illuminating, and I thank all the participants in it.


Well this is a bit off topic but I need to insert this here anyway:

Mr Kisor's book, Zephyr, is what made me consider riding on Amtrak when it first came out. I had no idea the service was anything like he described it. So I took a couple of trips from Boston to North Carolina to visit family, and took my then little kids, and it was wonderful.

The a few years later I actually took the Zephyr end to end, and prior to going I read the book again, and loved it again. Quite a few things had changed since he wrote it, but it was still very meaningful.

If you have not read Zephyr, you are missing out. I for one am looking forward to the new edition.

OK sorry for straying off topic but...

I too have liked this thread for its frankness. I don't mind if it stays active, and if I get bored I'll stop reading it. Text doesn't use much bandwidth anyhow.

#88 Montanan

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:35 PM

"Zephyr" will be reissued in an ebook edition within a week or 10 days. The bulk of the book remains as written but there will be a long Epilogue that refreshes all (hopefully) the facts and brings up to date the stories of the train crew. There will also be a new selection of photographs. I'm just returning from Emeryville on No. 6 after one more photo mission, and as I write this we've just left Mt. Pleasant, Iowa.

Great to hear! I too own a copy of the original edition, and I remember it as a good read.

#89 Trogdor

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

I am grateful for this post. Back in 1994 I published a book called "Zephyr." Among other things I asked a train chief about gay/lesbian issues and he said the only problem he had with them was assigning rooms to crew members -- he had to be sure that straights wouldn't mind bunking with gays and sometimes had to juggle the assignments. I'm updating the book, and I've wondered how the issue has evolved over the years. This thread has been most illuminating, and I thank all the participants in it.


Each crew member gets his/her own room these days, so no issues with those who don't like their roommates.
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#90 amamba

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:45 PM

Oh, I would love to buy "zephyr" for the kindle. Please keep us posted, henry. :)

#91 sportbiker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

Henry: I read your book prior to our group outing [pun intended] on the Zephyr. Prior to that trip, my only experience was short turns on the Surfliner, so I had a newbie's concerns about venturing outside the safe cocoon of Amtrak California. Your book was invaluable.

#92 Guest_guest employee_*

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Okay, here goes - pardon my posting of "War and Peace"...
I am a current OBS employee out of LAX. I've posted on here before - I'm the one who's the "****" about terminology (it's TA/S, not "SCA") Here are some answers to a lot of questions: A LARGE percentage of Amtrak employees are gay (or GLBT if you prefer, as we do have all those and more), in every department, including several members of upper management. Like other parts of the travel industry, gay people tend more toward the front line (i.e., OBS is something like a quarter gay, where TandE, Mechanical, etc., tend to be more like 10 percent, maybe a little more. Amtrak has an explicit nondiscrimination policy toward all LGBT people. Some gay people working for Amtrak are more obvious than others, but you can bet there there are at least one or two on every single long distance train crew, and as likely as not on Sufliners (and Acela, etc.).
Attitudes vary, but most nongay employees are tolerant to embracing of their gay coworkers. Those who aren't wisely stay silent about it, as they could be reported to the Diversity Office for making homophobic statements, as they could for making statements that are sexist or racist.
As far as passengers, there's an informal "one strike" rule. If someone makes a homophobic (or racist or sexist) statement, and the crew is feeling generous, they will get one warning that such language is not acceptable. Company policy (as well as state and Federal law) allow those who won't or can't comply to be removed for being disruptive.
I treat our many gay travelers (and again, in the travel industry, the population of passengers who are LGBT is MUCH higher that the general population) exactly the same as the nongay travelers. I shot down a gay man who complained about a heterosexual couple who were holding hands and kissing (appropriately...they weren't going up shirts or down pants), just as I would if the situation were reversed. I never "assume" about anyone's sexuality or relationship status, unless they make it clear. As far as my own sexuality, I never disclose unless I'm asked. If someone asks about my girlfriend (and if I'm dating someone), I'll correct the pronoun for them.
As far as this thread, I feel it is appropriate for this forum, as would be discussions of religion or politics, if they relate to Amtrak. The Republicans by and large oppose Amtrak funding, and that's worthy of discussion. People have religious accommodations that Amtrak has to deal with (diet, clothing, etc.), and that is likewise worthy.
If a passenger is uncomfortable with someone being openly gay and working on their train, I suggest they find alternate transportation. Though frankly, finding a transportation mode free of gay people is virtually impossible. Gay employees are allowed to be as "out" as the like at Amtrak, as is true with most modes of transport.
On the gossipy side, I've been hit on by a few employees - of both sexes - and I've been hit on by passengers - of both sexes. I've never directly hit on anyone else on the train, even people I knew were to be gay, even if I found them attractive. Amtrak isn't a dating service for me. (I will admit to having had casual relationships outside work with people who USED TO work for Amtrak, but no current employees).
I'm sure I've met many of you, and I know that I've waited personally on Alan on a couple of occasions in the diner. As my gay friends in the Marines used to say (and have tattooed on their bodies), we are everywhere.

#93 amamba

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

Guest employee, thanks for sharing your story.
Although I don't understand why you are always complaining about the use of SCA. Amtrak uses it in their marketing materials and on their website and in the route guides. I think we should agree to all just get behind both SCA and TA-S as being interchangeable or just a silly case of semantics.

#94 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:18 PM

I've been hit on by a few employees - of both sexes - and I've been hit on by passengers - of both sexes. I've never directly hit on anyone else on the train, even people I knew were to be gay, even if I found them attractive. Amtrak isn't a dating service for me.

Socially I'm a pretty progressive guy, especially for a Texan. I want folks to be able to do as they please so long as it doesn't involve unwilling or defenseless participants or cause harm to others. I'm not talking about some vague spiritual impact, but real actual harm. Other than that I believe that you should be able to do as you please. However, that being said, I must admit that as a straight person I do not enjoy being hit on by aggressive gay men. I think some folks in the gay community sometimes misconstrue tolerance for something else. Sometimes this can result in humorous or even comical exchanges, but other times it tests tolerance in a way that could be detrimental, especially since there's only so much someone can say in return without getting in trouble themselves.

Any views expressed are my own and do not represent the views of my employer, parent companies, partners, or subsidiaries.

Over 50,000 people just like you recently signed a petition to expand high speed passenger rail in the United States of America.

Long live The Coast Starlight, The California Zephyr, The Empire Builder, The Southwest Chief, and The Canadian.


#95 NE933

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:37 PM

To Guest Employee, that is a great account, and one of the most thorough of answers. I was also unprepared to hear of that there are MANY who work for Amtrak. I expected some, but not many.

#96 Montanan

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:36 AM

However, that being said, I must admit that as a straight person I do not enjoy being hit on by aggressive gay men. I think some folks in the gay community sometimes misconstrue tolerance for something else.


I could say pretty much the same thing about being hit on by aggressive straight women! And I'm sure many straight women would say the same thing about aggressive heterosexual men, who they might not happen to be interested in. Misconstruing social cues certainly isn't more common in the gay community than elsewhere, and I think many gay men are actually more cautious in that regard than average, because they're aware of the intolerance that still exists in much of American society.

And with that, back to the topic at hand ...

#97 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:17 AM


However, that being said, I must admit that as a straight person I do not enjoy being hit on by aggressive gay men. I think some folks in the gay community sometimes misconstrue tolerance for something else.


I could say pretty much the same thing about being hit on by aggressive straight women! And I'm sure many straight women would say the same thing about aggressive heterosexual men, who they might not happen to be interested in. Misconstruing social cues certainly isn't more common in the gay community than elsewhere, and I think many gay men are actually more cautious in that regard than average, because they're aware of the intolerance that still exists in much of American society.

And with that, back to the topic at hand ...


Agree.

2011: Jun: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // Nov: WIL=>WAS=>CHI=>PRO (NER=>CL=>CZ)
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#98 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:24 AM

Allow me for a moment a slightly different. I am not a homophobe- I have various friends fitting into all four categories of GLBT. I even got into an argument with Alan over the locking of this thread. But I am sick of people talking about how there particular group- irrespective of what it is- being treated with a perceived- and often inaccurate- lack of respect relative to the various other groups. I know it exists. I was born with the terrible combination of a 185 iq and several learning disabilities. Do you know what it feels like to be vastly better at comprehending the world around you then your grade school teacher who presumes you to be an idiot? Not out of spite, mind you, but out of pity and a want to help.

I was terribly discriminated against, because people assumed me to be dumb due to a lack of ability to learn information in a few select formats.

But he fact of the matter is, despite it's prevalence, discrimination is a symptom, not a Problem. The problem is we as People have a terrible lack of respect do each other as people, irrespective of any other category. I once got physically sick because I watched, ironically, a gay male complain about being discriminated against, only to turn around and be disrespectful to a variety of people, grossly, in outrageous ways.

Let's stop talking about treating group gobbilty gook with equal respect, the respect they deserve, bs yadda bs. Let us instead realize that before we treat gays with the same respect of other men (encompassing the feminine) we treat all men with the level of respect they deserve. For treating any minority with the respect we generally treat our fellow man is a disservice and a disrespect to life itself/
Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (5), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), California Zephyr (2), Coast Starlight (1), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (10), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 42,878 --- Total Trains: 55
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#99 the_traveler

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:46 AM

Let's stop talking about treating group gobbilty gook with equal respect, the respect they deserve, bs yadda bs. Let us instead realize that before we treat gays with the same respect of other men (encompassing the feminine) we treat all men with the level of respect they deserve. For treating any minority with the respect we generally treat our fellow man is a disservice and a disrespect to life itself/

For once, GML, I agree with you!

If we did so, there would be no need for this thread, but that is not always the case.Posted Image

And that's all I'm going to say on the subject as an AU member.

A training I will go ... !


#100 Peter KG6LSE

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:15 AM

Allow me for a moment a slightly different. I am not a homophobe- I have various friends fitting into all four categories of GLBT. I even got into an argument with Alan over the locking of this thread. But I am sick of people talking about how there particular group- irrespective of what it is- being treated with a perceived- and often inaccurate- lack of respect relative to the various other groups. I know it exists. I was born with the terrible combination of a 185 iq and several learning disabilities. Do you know what it feels like to be vastly better at comprehending the world around you then your grade school teacher who presumes you to be an idiot? Not out of spite, mind you, but out of pity and a want to help.

I was terribly discriminated against, because people assumed me to be dumb due to a lack of ability to learn information in a few select formats.


Same here too.. Not being able to write Thus not" putting out " sadly makes one look rather dumb ..
I am blessed that computers are where they are . And that I keep Photo records on what I build and do .

Without I would be hosed.

Meh , Aspergers and its 2 sided gifts ..


But he fact of the matter is, despite it's prevalence, discrimination is a symptom, not a Problem. The problem is we as People have a terrible lack of respect do each other as people, irrespective of any other category. I once got physically sick because I watched, ironically, a gay male complain about being discriminated against, only to turn around and be disrespectful to a variety of people, grossly, in outrageous ways.

Let's stop talking about treating group gobbilty gook with equal respect, the respect they deserve, bs yadda bs. Let us instead realize that before we treat gays with the same respect of other men (encompassing the feminine) we treat all men with the level of respect they deserve. For treating any minority with the respect we generally treat our fellow man is a disservice and a disrespect to life itself/


I am Bi and I agree! .


Peter...

Edited by Peter KG6LSE, 30 March 2012 - 10:23 AM.




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