107 replies to this topic

[Ryan]

Because those stations don't yet have names.

[afigg]

Because those stations don't yet have names.

There was a survey taken by WMATA that closed on March 21 for input on the proposed Silver Line station names in Fairfax County. The Greater Greater Washington blog had a recent discussion on the survey and suggested names which lists the name the Fairfax County Board came up with, with no apparent thought given to the importance of having names that are descriptive, short, and not muddled. All we can do is hope that the staff and WMATA board settle on clear names for the Silver Line and not fall victim to the whims of politics that resulted in station names like U Street/African-American Civil War Memorial/Cardozo. If the Silver Line is to open by November/December of 2013 - which is optimistic given the slip in delivery of the 7000 series cars, the station names will likely have to be finalized this year.

[GG-1]

Somehow this just seems inherently backwards to me. I mean does one care more about where the train came from, or where it is going?

Could this 'new' practice be a projection of how METRO management looks at things?

Aloha

Doesn't seem strange to me. In NYC, that is exactly how they Identify their trains. Remember the movie Pelham 123, that name is because the train starts at Pelham at 1:23. I laugh because it is funny that someone in Hollywood used a real naming convention

[NY Penn]

Just curious - what's the point of putting lines under construction on the map? Aside from that, I like how they shortened the ridiculous station names.

Somehow this just seems inherently backwards to me. I mean does one care more about where the train came from, or where it is going?

Could this 'new' practice be a projection of how METRO management looks at things?

Aloha

Doesn't seem strange to me. In NYC, that is exactly how they Identify their trains. Remember the movie Pelham 123, that name is because the train starts at Pelham at 1:23. I laugh because it is funny that someone in Hollywood used a real naming convention

Interestingly, that's how they're identified internally, not to the public.


For example, to the public a train is known as a (7), for example.
Between the train operator, dispatcher, etc. the train is known as the 4:14 7 Times Square, if it started at Times Square at 4:14.

Not to take this thread OT.

[Trogdor]

Thanks Ryan. Great post!

It's interesting that the split blue/orange line is coming back, but unlike the earlier iteration the "color" of the train will be driven by the origin, not the destination of the train. In 1982 a Ballston to Addison Road train would always be blue (because it had went to the end of the blue line). This summer, that same train will be an Orange train, because it's originating on the Orange side of the line.

Somehow this just seems inherently backwards to me. I mean does one care more about where the train came from, or where it is going?

But will the extra service not be operating in both directions? If it is, then it would only be identifying where the train came from in one direction, but will be showing its (more or less) destination line in the other. I say "more or less" because the Yellow Line will be extended to Greenbelt, which isn't its normal terminal, but it makes more sense showing it as a yellow line than as a Green Line.

[The Davy Crockett]

Thanks Ryan. Great post!

It's interesting that the split blue/orange line is coming back, but unlike the earlier iteration the "color" of the train will be driven by the origin, not the destination of the train. In 1982 a Ballston to Addison Road train would always be blue (because it had went to the end of the blue line). This summer, that same train will be an Orange train, because it's originating on the Orange side of the line.

Somehow this just seems inherently backwards to me. I mean does one care more about where the train came from, or where it is going?

But will the extra service not be operating in both directions? If it is, then it would only be identifying where the train came from in one direction, but will be showing its (more or less) destination line in the other. I say "more or less" because the Yellow Line will be extended to Greenbelt, which isn't its normal terminal, but it makes more sense showing it as a yellow line than as a Green Line.

Suddenly the 'split' Orange and Blue Lines on the 1982 map make a whole lot of sense.

[trainman74]

In NYC, that is exactly how they Identify their trains. Remember the movie Pelham 123, that name is because the train starts at Pelham at 1:23. I laugh because it is funny that someone in Hollywood used a real naming convention

I think it was the author of the original book who did all the heavy research, rather than "Hollywood" when they made the movie.

I have friends who live on the north side of Chicago who complain about the automated annunciators in 'L' stations that are programmed to say "train from the Loop arriving" instead of "train to Howard arriving" or even just "northbound train arriving" -- so it's not necessarily just railfans who notice this kind of thing.

Edited by trainman74, 24 March 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Trogdor]

I have friends who live on the north side of Chicago who complain about the automated annunciators in 'L' stations that are programmed to say "train from the Loop arriving" instead of "train to Howard arriving" or even just "northbound train arriving" -- so it's not necessarily just railfans who notice this kind of thing.

It's because the system wasn't very advanced. It was just triggered by a train passing a certain point. The system doesn't know where the train is going (or, even, whether the train is in service).

Those announcements can be quite useless at a place such as Roosevelt, where you don't know whether the train is Green or Orange, and therefore still need to wait until the train gets in to see whether it's the one you want.

All that is pointless now (and hopefully they'll either disconnect or reprogram it), because Train Tracker tells you when the next (several) train(s) is(are) arriving, and where it(they) is(are) going.

[DET63]

At least on BART the platform signs tell where the train is going. There are, of course, no destination signs on the trains themselves, save for a very small one in the operator's cab of the lead car.

Here's a typical sign showing a train's destination:

Edited by DET63, 25 March 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Ryan]

So does WMATA (in addition to the destination signs on the train):

[Trogdor]

3 min, 12 min, and 14 min. Sounds about right for WMATA. The only surprising part about that photo is that the all three trains are (supposedly) in service.

[Ryan]

I don't know when the picture was taken, but since it's showing trains short-turning at NY Ave, it's certainly during a time of abnormal service.

[afigg]

I don't know when the picture was taken, but since it's showing trains short-turning at NY Ave, it's certainly during a time of abnormal service.

Could have been taken during one of the weekend maintenance service reductions with single tracking on the Red Line north of NY Avenue. The time spacing between trains is consistent with a weekend or later night service. NY Avenue station will be renamed NoMa-Gallaudet when the new map and schedules take effect in June. If they short turn trains after the name change, I would guess the sign would say NoMa. Which will really confuse people until everyone learns where NoMa is.

[The Davy Crockett]

Which will really confuse people until everyone learns where NoMa is.

And which will never happen because so many folks in DC are 'just visiting.' METRO really needs to stop taking cues from a station's local business and school community or we will soon (if we already aren't) be in the record books for the station(s) with the longest names in the world.

Imagine being a tourist from a country like China, whose native tongue is so different, and not knowing English well. It must be VERY confusing!

Well at least Washington doesn't get very many international visitors!

[afigg]

Which will really confuse people until everyone learns where NoMa is.

And which will never happen because so many folks in DC are 'just visiting.' METRO really needs to stop taking cues from a station's local business and school community or we will soon (if we already aren't) be in the record books for the station(s) with the longest names in the world.

Imagine being a tourist from a country like China, whose native tongue is so different, and not knowing English well. It must be VERY confusing!

Well at least Washington doesn't get very many international visitors!

Perhaps, I should not have written "everyone learns where NoMa is", but "most people learns where NoMa is". The NoMa name for the neighborhood has, after enough years of plugging away by the developers, has begun to become commonly used in the local press and on websites. Once the Metro station has been renamed and the name shows up on maps, it will become the common name used in everyday conversation. As for name length, that is the advantage of NoMa as the key identifier. Its short. It may be a little silly, but it is short. Swampoodle might have been more fun, but developers would never go for "swamp" in the name.

"New York Ave-Florida Ave-Gallaudet U" is rather vague, especially if one has no clue what or where Gallaudet U is.

[sechs]

So does WMATA (in addition to the destination signs on the train)

Metro is based on the BART system, so it kind of follows.

BART is planning on getting new cars (some of the current rolling stock has been on BART since the system opened in 1972), which, as I understand it, have additional signage, such as Metro has had for some time.

[sechs]

NY Avenue station will be renamed NoMa-Gallaudet when the new map and schedules take effect in June. If they short turn trains after the name change, I would guess the sign would say NoMa. Which will really confuse people until everyone learns where NoMa is.

So, instead of being long and confusing, they'll be cryptic and confusing?

When I looked up "NoMa" I found it to be a Danish restaurant. And there are plenty of folks who have no idea what Gallaudet is, let alone where.

[Trogdor]

"New York Ave-Florida Ave-Gallaudet U" is rather vague, especially if one has no clue what or where Gallaudet U is.

It's not vague at all, if you have any sense of the DC street network. One would assume that a station with that name would be at or near the intersection of New York Ave and Florida Ave.

Though, to be fair, most tourists who have no idea where any of these landmarks are have just as little idea of the DC street network (save perhaps a couple of really famous ones, such as Pennsylvania Ave). I'd bet a good portion of visitors get more DC regional geography from the subway map than anything else.

[afigg]

So, instead of being long and confusing, they'll be cryptic and confusing?

When I looked up "NoMa" I found it to be a Danish restaurant. And there are plenty of folks who have no idea what Gallaudet is, let alone where.

NoMa is a created name for an area just north of Union Station in DC. Stands for North of Massachussets Avenue. There is a lot of construction and buildings going up there. Give it a couple of years with the new Metro station name and it will be an established name for the neighborhood.

It has had a Wikipedia entry for a few years: http://en.wikipedia....ashington,_D.C.
Business development website to plug the neighborhood: http://www.nomabid.org/

[sechs]

So, this is just government enforcement of a lightly used colloquial name. They might as well go with not-dead ex-presidents; that's already popular with the airports.