103 replies to this topic

[afigg]

Are there any circumstances where Amtrak would be under enough pressure to at least consider leasing the Hi-Levels from Illinois for a few years to fill a gap (for example, throwing them in as a set of corridor-on-LD cars)? I know that Amtrak does not want to operate these cars, but considering the equipment jam...let's just say that "want" and "need" may increasingly be two different things.** The Superliner shortage is only "deterministic" with sleepers, not coaches.***

We may see something like in this direction if the Iowa Pacific Company plans to add a special Pullman set of cars onto the Lake Shore Limited and I guess the City of New Orleans pan out. They have a very short web site placeholder. Details are sketchy, but the company has or is refurbishing a number of Pullman cars for a premium sleeper and diner service to operate on a regular schedule between NYC, Chicago, and New Orleans. Thread at the Trains Magazine site with some information on this plan.

The cars would presumably be treated as PVs where the Iowa Pacific handles the room bookings and supplies the crew for the Pullman cars. If there is a 2 or 3 car set of PVs that are added to the LSL on a regularly scheduled basis, does that count as part of the Amtrak LSL "normal" consist?

Thinking about it, the Iowa Pacific operation could also run on the Cardinal for peak scenery times of the year. But this would be a premium service with a seriously premium price tag I would expect.

The other question I have is whether Amtrak could approach VIA about a joint order the next time VIA puts in a bid of some kind (and I would extend this to some of the mass transit agencies if they end up placing single-level orders for something...if the extent of the difference between the cars is a bathroom and legroom, I don't see a problem piggybacking)?

When was the last time VIA ordered new equipment (not including locomotives) for its LD fleet or corridor trains? {seriously off-topic for this thread though]

[Blackwolf]

When was the last time VIA ordered new equipment (not including locomotives) for its LD fleet or corridor trains? {seriously off-topic for this thread though]

New cars actually ordered by VIA for their services? The 1970's order for what are now known as LRC, of which the last cars to roll off the line were mid-1980's. The Renaissance/NightStar cars were a fluke; a whole fleet of brand new but half-finished cars that Alstrom needed to get rid of badly or just send to the scrapper. An offer VIA could not refuse due to the junk-stock price tag.

With the money being sunk into rebuilding the whole VIA fleet (Budd/LRC/Renaissance) I don't see any new orders for cars. In fact, VIA boasts about their oldest, 1950's era Budds being in front-line service for at least another 25 years. No, Amtrak will be on their own in terms of new rolling stock on an international level IMHO.

[Anderson]

I know their LD fleet is super-old and they're refurbishing it. What is their corridor fleet (i.e. the Quebec/Ontario services) made up of? The LRCs?

[Texan Eagle]

There are several trains in India that are 24 cars these days. And surprisingly they are all pulled by single electric engines, usually WAP4 or WAP7 Co-Co units.

Most of the popular long-distance express trains in India are now 24 car long, and pulled by a single electric or diesel locomotive. I once had the fortune of riding in a 24 car long train being pulled by a single 3100hp diesel locomotive, over a section involving significant grades. It was fun to hear the poor locomotive growl as it chugged its way through the hills!

It is fun to ride in such extra-long trains, especially when you can see the whole length snaking ahead on curves. Here's is one photo from my recent India trip, taken from the 21st car looking ahead. There were 2 more cars behind me, making it a 23 car train.

Edit: Just realized, after the 23 passenger carrying cars there was one High Capacity Parcel Van making it a 24 car consist overall, the maximum currently allowed on Indian Railways for passenger trains.

Edited by Texan Eagle, 23 February 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[jis]

That looks way familiar. Between Gurpa and Gajhandi on the Grand Chord? Is this your 6 hours behind schedule Mumbai Mail via Allahabad?

Edited by jis, 23 February 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Texan Eagle]

That looks way familiar. Between Gurpa and Gajhandi on the Grand Chord? Is this your 6 hours behind schedule Mumbai Mail via Allahabad?

Yes, that is a very late-running Howrah-Mumbai Mail in the hills between Gurpa and Gajhandi on the Grand Chord.

[Donctor]

Why not, they are a part of the train?

From the line number thread:

EMPIRE BUILDER — 5 sets
2 cars CHI-MSP (seasonal)

----|---- [CHI-SEA] Heritage Baggage
0732|0832 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Dorm/Sleeper
0731|0831 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Sleeper
0730|0830 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Sleeper
----|---- [CHI-SEA] Superliner Diner
0711|0811 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Coach
0712|0812 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Coach
----|---- [CHI-PDX] Superliner Sightseer Lounge
2714|2814 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Coach
2715|2815 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Coach/Baggage
2730|2830 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Sleeper
0709|0809 [CHI-MSP] Superliner Coach*

* seasonal


LAKE SHORE LIMITED — 3 sets

----|---- [CHI-BOS] Heritage Baggage
4820|4920 [CHI-BOS] Viewliner Sleeper
4841|4941 [CHI-BOS] Amfleet II Coach
4840|4940 [CHI-BOS] Amfleet II Coach
----|---- [CHI-BOS] Lounge (Horizon or Amfleet I Dinette, or Amfleet II Lounge)
4833|4933 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4832|4932 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4831|4931 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4830|4930 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Lounge
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Heritage Diner
4811|4911 [CHI-NYP] Viewliner Sleeper
4812|4912 [CHI-NYP] Viewliner Sleeper
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Heritage Baggage

If you don't count bags, the LSL still has 1 more car.

48/49 don't have a lounge right now

[mfastx]

This thread would be a bit better with pictures and videos of said trains, no?

[The Davy Crockett]

This thread would be a bit better with pictures and videos of said trains, no?

you could try YouTube...

[mfastx]

you could try YouTube...

It's been done, lol.

[PerRock]

you could try YouTube...

It's been done, lol.

Here is a vid of my submission:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=imXO3qFSODc

peter

PS: and after watching the vid, I counted 22 cars, not counting the Cabbage at the beginning, as it's only the ITCS protection unit & not hauling baggage).

Edited by PerRock, 23 February 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[NS VIA Fan]

Oh, but I have been on it with 30 cars, though three of them were deadhead.

I have to wonder, with VIA's HEP configuration of dual 440v lines running both sides of the cars, what their consist limit is?

And here's a 30 car Ocean on Nov. 9, 2005.

VIA #15 OCEAN w/b Truro, NS
6420 F40
6409 F40
6431 F40
8622 Baggage
8113 Coach
8138 Coach
8117 Coach
8506 Skyline Dome
Chateau Dollard
Chateau Richelieu
Chateau Salaberry
Acadian Diner
Chateau Argenson
Chateau Iberville
Chateau Bienville
Chateau Levis
Chateau Closse
Chateau Maisonneuve
Fairholme Diner
Chateau Jolliet
Dawson Manor
Hunter Manor
Stuart Manor
MacDonald Manor
Chateau Lauzon
Louise Diner
Chateau Marquette
Osler Manor
Grant Manor
Thompson Manor
Allan Manor
Chateau Laval
Glacier Park Dome Observation

Total:
3 - F40's
30 - cars (Including: 21 Sleepers + 3 Diners)

Edited by NS VIA Fan, 23 February 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Texan Eagle]

This thread would be a bit better with pictures and videos of said trains, no?

There you go, see not one but two very long long Empire Builders in one video-

Here is a 14 car long Lake Shore Limited

And then, stuff that caravanman, jis and I were discussing- 24 car long express trains from India-

With electric engine

With diesel engine

[Montanan]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe I've read somewhere that for operational reasons, Via has reduced the maximum length of the Canadian, so the 30-car trains are a thing of the past. (And even a 30-car train didn't carry as many people as you might think, since the capacity of a sold-out Budd sleeping car is only about 22 or so.)

The longest Amtrak train I've ever been on was a couple of years ago, when a derailment in Illinois caused the Zephyr and Southwest Chief to be combined into a single train, and detoured over the old Santa Fe route between Galesburg and Joliet.

[afigg]

Ok, if we are going beyond regularly scheduled Amtrak trains with the VIA Canadian, doubled up LD trains, long trains in India, etc. One of the key specifications for the ACS-64 electric locomotives is that they are to be able to pull 18 cars at 125 mph. Would not expect to see that happen very often in normal service! However, it is one of the specifications, so it will have to be confirmed as part of the testing of the first unit or units. So there will be the opportunity for the eagle eyed or alert railfan to take a video of an ACS-64 hauling 18 Amfleets (maybe with some Viewliner IIs) in deadhead test runs on the NEC between WAS and NYP. Ideally a video of the train blasting through a station at 125 mph.

[railiner]

IIRC, didn't Amtrak used to have a self-imposed arbitrary limit of 18 cars on their trains? I believe that number was arrived at by the limit of the longest platform at Pennsylvannia Station, New York. I seem to remember Florida trains of that length pulled from NYP by one of those big E-60's.
Prior to Amtrak, I believe Union Pacific's combined, so-called "City of Everywhere" carrying sections destined to Denver, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Portland would also stretch out close to 30 cars from Chicago to North Platte....

[Anderson]

IIRC, didn't Amtrak used to have a self-imposed arbitrary limit of 18 cars on their trains? I believe that number was arrived at by the limit of the longest platform at Pennsylvannia Station, New York. I seem to remember Florida trains of that length pulled from NYP by one of those big E-60's.
Prior to Amtrak, I believe Union Pacific's combined, so-called "City of Everywhere" carrying sections destined to Denver, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Portland would also stretch out close to 30 cars from Chicago to North Platte....

Amtrak has such a limit IIRC (Auto Train carriers excluded and unusual circumstances notwithstanding). However, the combined Silver Meteor/Champion of 1979 would get up to 28, which was probably a "normal" Amtrak record. As to pre-Amtrak...if I'm not mistaken, when SP combined the Sunset with the Golden State, there was a time when that train would get up into the high 30s.

[Bill Haithcoat]

I recall curving through the Rockies on an 18 superliner car combined CZ, Pioneer and Desert wind.

[Swadian Hardcore]

There are several trains in India that are 24 cars these days. And surprisingly they are all pulled by single electric engines, usually WAP4 or WAP7 Co-Co units.

Most of the popular long-distance express trains in India are now 24 car long, and pulled by a single electric or diesel locomotive. I once had the fortune of riding in a 24 car long train being pulled by a single 3100hp diesel locomotive, over a section involving significant grades. It was fun to hear the poor locomotive growl as it chugged its way through the hills!

It is fun to ride in such extra-long trains, especially when you can see the whole length snaking ahead on curves. Here's is one photo from my recent India trip, taken from the 21st car looking ahead. There were 2 more cars behind me, making it a 23 car train.

Edit: Just realized, after the 23 passenger carrying cars there was one High Capacity Parcel Van making it a 24 car consist overall, the maximum currently allowed on Indian Railways for passenger trains.

Nice! Care to explain the Mumbai Mail?

I remember seei9ng a pictures of a super long train in Mongolia. No link; does anybody have an idea.

[Swadian Hardcore]

I recall curving through the Rockies on an 18 superliner car combined CZ, Pioneer and Desert wind.

Too bad it don't happen no more!