35 replies to this topic

[caravanman]

Hi,
I noticed one person saying they can't stand B.A. to fly with, I have tended to fly with them because they do not serve nuts as snacks... my son has a nut allergy.
I am just interested as to what is felt to make them a poor airline to fly with?

Ed

[Anderson]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

There would need to be a new line with new tunnels and new bridges.

Interestingly, The PA Turnpike has been steadily abandoning tunnels and right of way over the years as cars get more power and better hill climbing ability. A new rail line south of the existing one that used those tunnels (the size would have to be increased, but still cheaper than a new tunnel) could make it work.

So, would you be arguing that the South Penn Railroad ought to be built? It'd only be after about a 130-year delay:-p

[amamba]

Wow, I didn't realize that SWA was discontinuing service from PHL into Manchester and Boston, too! I thought they were just giving up on the PVD - PHL service because maybe they were doing BOS - PHL instead. That totally sucks and will definitely drive up the cost of flights out of PVD.

Another factor could be that the gate fees at TF Green/PVD were raised by about 20% this year. US air has decreased their flights into PVD by about 10-20% this year as a reaction to that. I just read about that in the Providence Business News.

[Oldsmoboi]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

There would need to be a new line with new tunnels and new bridges.

Interestingly, The PA Turnpike has been steadily abandoning tunnels and right of way over the years as cars get more power and better hill climbing ability. A new rail line south of the existing one that used those tunnels (the size would have to be increased, but still cheaper than a new tunnel) could make it work.

So, would you be arguing that the South Penn Railroad ought to be built? It'd only be after about a 130-year delay:-p

Essentially... yes. The route was surprisingly sound back then and most of the major kinks in the line from a HSR perspective can be worked out with modern technology.

[the_traveler]

Southwest may be discontinuing service from PVD-PHL, but there is talk that Jet Blue may start service into PVD! And they have a new alliance with Hawaiian Airlines too!

Because Amtrak doesn't serve Hawaii (yet), I may be forced to fly to Hawaii - can I use AGR points?

[jis]

Southwest may be discontinuing service from PVD-PHL, but there is talk that Jet Blue may start service into PVD! And they have a new alliance with Hawaiian Airlines too!

Because Amtrak doesn't serve Hawaii (yet), I may be forced to fly to Hawaii - can I use AGR points?

Somehow get JetBlue and Hawaiian to code share with Amtrak.

[PRR 60]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

There would need to be a new line with new tunnels and new bridges.

Interestingly, The PA Turnpike has been steadily abandoning tunnels and right of way over the years as cars get more power and better hill climbing ability. A new rail line south of the existing one that used those tunnels (the size would have to be increased, but still cheaper than a new tunnel) could make it work.

So, would you be arguing that the South Penn Railroad ought to be built? It'd only be after about a 130-year delay:-p

Essentially... yes. The route was surprisingly sound back then and most of the major kinks in the line from a HSR perspective can be worked out with modern technology.

Just wondering what you intend to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike. The highway occupies the right-of-way of the never completed railroad. The tunnel bypass relocations are just a small portion of the line.

[the_traveler]

Who needs the PA Turnpike - nobody drives anymore! (Isn't that what they say about trains?)

[PRR 60]

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Moreover as of this week rumors are running rife that DL, US and UA might divvy up the carcass of AA, though I don't see that happening.

And today comes the news that DL is exploring a takeover of US. That could be just a diversionary move, but if DL became the dominant airline at PHL, I might have to move. It took me years to acquire the US taste. I don't want to have to acclimate to yet another mediocre carrier.

[Anderson]

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Moreover as of this week rumors are running rife that DL, US and UA might divvy up the carcass of AA, though I don't see that happening.

And today comes the news that DL is exploring a takeover of US. That could be just a diversionary move, but if DL became the dominant airline at PHL, I might have to move. It took me years to acquire the US taste. I don't want to have to acclimate to yet another mediocre carrier.

How much more consolidation can the airline industry take before antitrust concerns start arising on a lot of city pairs and/or a lot of larger pairs? I know you've got Southwest and some smaller super-discount carriers out there (most with one hub at best), but what're we down to? Four of the "legacy" lines left?

[Oldsmoboi]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

There would need to be a new line with new tunnels and new bridges.

Interestingly, The PA Turnpike has been steadily abandoning tunnels and right of way over the years as cars get more power and better hill climbing ability. A new rail line south of the existing one that used those tunnels (the size would have to be increased, but still cheaper than a new tunnel) could make it work.

So, would you be arguing that the South Penn Railroad ought to be built? It'd only be after about a 130-year delay:-p

Essentially... yes. The route was surprisingly sound back then and most of the major kinks in the line from a HSR perspective can be worked out with modern technology.

Just wondering what you intend to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike. The highway occupies the right-of-way of the never completed railroad. The tunnel bypass relocations are just a small portion of the line.

The Turnpike has moved left and right multiple times over the years leaving old ROW behind. I actually suggest running the line parallel to it for much of the western portion. I'm not even looking for ICE like speeds. 110mph would put the Pittsburgh - Philly trip in spitting distance of 4.5 hours with stops.

There could even be partial electrification of the line for the sharper grades and instead of using the P40s, use Dual-Mode DMUs. Use overhead wire for grade climbing and then the diesel power for the long flat runs. The other advantage is that once the train gets to Harrisburg, it can be electric all the rest of the way to NYP, though something would need to be figured out about the direction change at PHL.

.... in an ideal world....

[Oldsmoboi]

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Moreover as of this week rumors are running rife that DL, US and UA might divvy up the carcass of AA, though I don't see that happening.

And today comes the news that DL is exploring a takeover of US. That could be just a diversionary move, but if DL became the dominant airline at PHL, I might have to move. It took me years to acquire the US taste. I don't want to have to acclimate to yet another mediocre carrier.

I thought DL was after AA....

[jis]

IMHO DL is whistleing in the wind. It has close to zero chance of getting a merger with either US or AA approved.

[Devil's Advocate]

IMHO DL is whistleing in the wind. It has close to zero chance of getting a merger with either US or AA approved.

That depends on the will of the Justice Department, which itself depends on the will of the President, who himself depends on the will of the people. If Romney or Gingrich or Paul are elected would you still see this as "whistling in the wind?"

Edited by Texas Sunset, 31 January 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Anderson]

IMHO DL is whistleing in the wind. It has close to zero chance of getting a merger with either US or AA approved.

That depends on the will of the Justice Department, which itself depends on the will of the President, who himself depends on the will of the people. If Romney or Gingrich or Paul are elected would you still see this as "whistling in the wind?"

Though he's probably going to have a bit of trouble getting nominated, "Gingrich" and "block merger" probably don't belong in the same sentence if some variation on "does not" isn't also included.

As to the direction change mentioned above, would it be possible to arrange for a set of cab cars so that the train could enter PHL in "push" mode and then leave in "pull" mode or vice-versa?

[jis]

Hi,
I noticed one person saying they can't stand B.A. to fly with, I have tended to fly with them because they do not serve nuts as snacks... my son has a nut allergy.
I am just interested as to what is felt to make them a poor airline to fly with?

Ed

Nothing in general. Just repeated personal bad experiences with them in handling situations which needed a little additional care. Also their mileage accrual policies leave much to be desired.

Consequently, I had flown them only in emergencies to get to Kolkata quickly. Now that they don't fly there anymore, that also has become a non-issue. Emirates and Etihad do the job much better for those circumstances.