35 replies to this topic

[Acela150]

Seeing Amamba's Post in this topic raises the question of why Southwest Airlines cancelled Service to PVD.. Any ideas?? my Girlfriend would always travel into PVD and now either has to goto Logan or much to her dismay go to RTE on Amtrak only 20-30 minutes away from her home in the suburbs of Mass. Where as Logan is a good hour and a half, same with PVD! Any ideas??

Steve

Edited by Acela150, 13 January 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[Acela150]

To add to this further Manchester was also discontined and the last day of service to Logan will be Feb 11th. Looks like my girlfriend will be hitting the rails!!

[PRR 60]

Just to be clear, Southwest is not discontinuing service to Manchester (MHT), Boston (BOS) or Providence (PVD). All three airports will still have SWA service. They are dropping routes to Philadelphia from all three cities.

The problem was that US Airways also flies all three routes. US matched SWA's fares and bettered the frequency for the routes. US also uses the three routes as feeders to their PHL hub for both domestic and international service. Business travelers generally do not care for the SWA frequent flier program with its limited routes, no first class upgrades and no alliance. The bottom line was that the fares on all three routes dropped, but travelers by and large stayed with US.

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

[jis]

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Moreover as of this week rumors are running rife that DL, US and UA might divvy up the carcass of AA, though I don't see that happening.

[PRR 60]

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Moreover as of this week rumors are running rife that DL, US and UA might divvy up the carcass of AA, though I don't see that happening.

I got a little weak-kneed when I heard that. Living in the Philly area, I'm kind of married to US, like it or not. Right now, I kind of like it. US has improved a lot since the dark days immediately post HP merger. Plus, I really like US being in Star Alliance. I weasel status each year (by hook, crook, or MR), and having *A Gold is great for occasional international trips. If they grab the road-kill remains of AA, the rumor is that US would go to One World. I'm not sure how I would feel about that complication.

[jis]

Yes my preference is * too viz-a-viz One World. I cannot stand British Airways which is what I get stuck flying to most places if I was wedded to One World. AA's international routes except in Caribbean/Latin America is pretty weak and getting weaker by the day. They are abandoning India altogether for example, so the only choice in One World to India would be BA and perhaps a fast disappearing airline like Kingfisher if it manages to somehow join One World while in the process of getting dismembered due to inability to pay lease charges for its planes to the lessors.

I am of course hoping that Jet Airways or even Air India would someday join * to make my life a little better.

It also is suddenly the case that WN is in no better financial shape than many of the legacies, and is arguably in worse shape than some.

Edited by jis, 13 January 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Trogdor]

Southwest is going to use those planes to launch their ATL service which begins in February.

[PRR 60]

Southwest is going to use those planes to launch their ATL service which begins in February.

Correct. Plus, Southwest want to get rid of the AirTran 717's as soon as possible. The 717 is a perfectly good airliner, but it does not blend into Southwest's all 737 fleet. Moving 737's off marginal routes, into Atlanta, and at the same time, parking some 717's - win, win, win.

[Acela150]

Just to be clear, Southwest is not discontinuing service to Manchester (MHT), Boston (BOS) or Providence (PVD). All three airports will still have SWA service. They are dropping routes to Philadelphia from all three cities.

The problem was that US Airways also flies all three routes. US matched SWA's fares and bettered the frequency for the routes. US also uses the three routes as feeders to their PHL hub for both domestic and international service. Business travelers generally do not care for the SWA frequent flier program with its limited routes, no first class upgrades and no alliance. The bottom line was that the fares on all three routes dropped, but travelers by and large stayed with US.

With the merger between AirTran and SWA, SWA took a good look at all their operations and decided to pull off the PHL routes and generally reduce their presence at PHL. When SWA came into PHL in 2004, US was a financial basket case. It was widely forecast that SWA would drive the final nail into US's coffin by running US out of it's most lucrative hub operation. It did not happen, and now eight years later, is US Airways is alive and well, and SWA is cutting back at PHL. What goes around, comes around.

Ooops forgot to put the words Philly in there. Thanks for the clarification.

[Devil's Advocate]

Business travelers generally do not care for the SWA frequent flier program with its limited routes, no first class upgrades and no alliance.

Down here in Texas WN is virtually synonymous with business travel. America West US Airways has slowly vanished over the years. They still have a handful of tiny third party regional jets serving exactly two nonstop destinations (Phoenix, AZ and Charlotte, NC) from the country's seventh largest city in the state with the second largest economy. Normally I'd be happy to have more service and more options from another airline, but some of my absolute worst experiences over the years have been with AW/US, so I can't exactly say they're missed.

Edited by Texas Sunset, 13 January 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Oldsmoboi]

US Airways is making up for the loss of SWA in PHL by raising ticket prices. MINIMUM round trip price between PHL and PIT is now $320 on a 3 month advance purchase.

[Acela150]

US Airways is making up for the loss of SWA in PHL by raising ticket prices. MINIMUM round trip price between PHL and PIT is now $320 on a 3 month advance purchase.

Did you mean PVD or PGH???

[PRR 60]

US Airways is making up for the loss of SWA in PHL by raising ticket prices. MINIMUM round trip price between PHL and PIT is now $320 on a 3 month advance purchase.

Did you mean PVD or PGH???

PIT: Pittsburgh International Airport.

[Acela150]

US Airways is making up for the loss of SWA in PHL by raising ticket prices. MINIMUM round trip price between PHL and PIT is now $320 on a 3 month advance purchase.

Did you mean PVD or PGH???

PIT: Pittsburgh International Airport.

I actually looked at US Air into PVD and it was around $400.

Sorry for the PGH. I'm used to the Amtrak codes. I've only been on a small handful of flights. So many I can count on one hand. That's how much I ride Amtrak.

[Anderson]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

[Devil's Advocate]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger)

I think it's pretty clear that here in 2012 "discount carrier" doesn't mean what it used to mean. These days things have turned around so much that Southwest is quite possibly the most legacy-like carrier of anyone. Not because Southwest has added much of anything to their original offering, but simply because all of the other legacies have either cut or unbundled nearly everything they used to offer in the cost of a ticket while Southwest had remained remarkably similar. Today's "discount carriers" are those new airlines with rules and fee charts only a compulsive gambler could love, such as Ryanair and Spirit Airlines.

[Oldsmoboi]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

[Anderson]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

[the_traveler]

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

Think Horseshoe Curve! And it crosses the mountains!

[Oldsmoboi]

It's going to be interesting to see if there's more retrenching over the next few months, particularly by the discount carriers. I know Southwest is pulling the plug on some redundant markets (PHF here in Virginia is pretty high on that list, since AirTran was there while Southwest was in Norfolk pre-merger); of course, it will also be interesting to see if one of the "lesser" carriers (Allegiant, for example) moves in on some of these markets.

As to fares, if $320 is the low bucket, then $400 (probably plus fees) seems like what I'd expect for a "regular" fare on the route.

Which is a ridiculous price for a Pittsburgh to Philly flight and proof that there would be a market for Amtrak to build a higher speed corridor between the two.

I agree that there's room for a higher-speed line than exists at the present (particularly past Harrisburg), but I'm not sure how much you can drag travel times down. How curvy is the line between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh?

There would need to be a new line with new tunnels and new bridges.

Interestingly, The PA Turnpike has been steadily abandoning tunnels and right of way over the years as cars get more power and better hill climbing ability. A new rail line south of the existing one that used those tunnels (the size would have to be increased, but still cheaper than a new tunnel) could make it work.