12 replies to this topic

[Anderson]

This obviously isn't on the agenda for this week or next, but after sitting through a timeshare presentation, the biggest deficiency I could find in the program (which was actually quite desirable) was a lack of interaction with rail travel (they had deals with about half of the airlines, but no such equivalent with Amtrak). For me, that bordered on being a deal-killer in and of itself, and the math ceased working because of it.

So...what is the process for searching out a PV to "buy into"? At some point (probably in another 5-10 years...I'm 25 and the money isn't quite there, but when I'm 30 or 35 I suspect it will be), I am going to want to do this in some form. So is there any way to look into how to get involved with, in so many words, a rail version of a timeshare?

[Ispolkom]

You probably want to talk to people in the American Association of Private Railroad Car Owners. I've never heard of a timeshare arrangement. The usual arrangement is one person owning the train and leasing it to recover some of the costs of ownership.

[Anderson]

*nods*

I know there have been mentions of some joint ownerships (Dan Ackroyd, for example, owns part of a PV out in California), which is why I ask. I will inquire there at some point, though.

[jimhudson]

Don't know what you do for a Living but hope it's Very Lucrative! There's an old saying:' If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it!" PVs are very Pricey to buy, rehab, maintain and operate! It's actually the hobby of Millionaires and Billionaires with LOTS of Disposable Cash! (In other words the T-Pubs Favorites, the 1%!!)

Id suggest that youd be better off buying rides on "Specials" that run PVs, and using your Money to ride the Canadian, the Ocean, and all the LD Amtrak Routes! Think youll find you get more bang for your buck this way!

[Alice]

Don't know what you do for a Living but hope it's Very Lucrative! There's an old saying:' If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it!" PVs are very Pricey to buy, rehab, maintain and operate! It's actually the hobby of Millionaires and Billionaires with LOTS of Disposable Cash! (In other words the T-Pubs Favorites, the 1%!!)

Id suggest that youd be better off buying rides on "Specials" that run PVs, and using your Money to ride the Canadian, the Ocean, and all the LD Amtrak Routes! Think youll find you get more bang for your buck this way!

I agree with everything Jim said here. Have you looked at Amtrak's prices to haul a PV around? To store it? To maintain it and keep it legal? Even to wash it? Google amtrak private cars if you haven't seen the rules and prices.

That said, a number of the California cars are owned by small groups. They charter them through an agency, which provides all the tax benefits (and liabilities) of rental housing, charter boats, and rental RVs. I suspect contacting one of the rental agencies might yield some worthwhile info if you are serious about this.

From a financial standpoint, I suspect PV time shares are a bad idea, same as they are usually a bad idea for vacation condos. You'd probably do better just to charter a car for a couple of weeks every year. Ispolkom pointed you to the right place for a long list of cars available for charter.

I ran the numbers a long time ago for sailboat charter vs ownership. Generally, the breakeven point was to go sailing every single weekend. That is, if you were going to skip a week, it cost less to charter. I suspect rail car ownership is the same, you need to use it yourself a lot to be financially sound, something not practical for most high-paying professions. I also suspect rail cars are like sailboats in that it is a real good idea to charter for a while first to be sure you like the lifestyle. This would be especially revealing if you rode one of the cars where the owner is one of the crew.

[Anderson]

Don't know what you do for a Living but hope it's Very Lucrative! There's an old saying:' If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it!" PVs are very Pricey to buy, rehab, maintain and operate! It's actually the hobby of Millionaires and Billionaires with LOTS of Disposable Cash! (In other words the T-Pubs Favorites, the 1%!!)

Id suggest that youd be better off buying rides on "Specials" that run PVs, and using your Money to ride the Canadian, the Ocean, and all the LD Amtrak Routes! Think youll find you get more bang for your buck this way!

I agree with everything Jim said here. Have you looked at Amtrak's prices to haul a PV around? To store it? To maintain it and keep it legal? Even to wash it? Google amtrak private cars if you haven't seen the rules and prices.

That said, a number of the California cars are owned by small groups. They charter them through an agency, which provides all the tax benefits (and liabilities) of rental housing, charter boats, and rental RVs. I suspect contacting one of the rental agencies might yield some worthwhile info if you are serious about this.

From a financial standpoint, I suspect PV time shares are a bad idea, same as they are usually a bad idea for vacation condos. You'd probably do better just to charter a car for a couple of weeks every year. Ispolkom pointed you to the right place for a long list of cars available for charter.

I ran the numbers a long time ago for sailboat charter vs ownership. Generally, the breakeven point was to go sailing every single weekend. That is, if you were going to skip a week, it cost less to charter. I suspect rail car ownership is the same, you need to use it yourself a lot to be financially sound, something not practical for most high-paying professions. I also suspect rail cars are like sailboats in that it is a real good idea to charter for a while first to be sure you like the lifestyle. This would be especially revealing if you rode one of the cars where the owner is one of the crew.

Well, I ask partly because the idea of where to inquire as to various costs is...well, I'd never even seen it suggested anywhere. I'm familiar with the saying...and, of course, with the hole in the water which my parents' boat was (my best guess is that the whole affair of that boat cost us a net $50,000 or so for a 26-foot boat over three years, and we probably got out lucky). Of course, I know what you're saying about "make sure you like it before you put in for it" (a full PV runs somewhere in the $500,000 range).

Of course, with that said, the cost of a "weekend trip" on a car being rented from someone else runs a hair above the cost of renting a boat (I think...I've never looked into boat rentals, actually, but the idea of owning a boat is something that three years on that boat growing up sort of cured me of!).

[railiner]

A lot of good advice from the posts above. I would suggest that for a much smaller investment, ownership of a luxury motorhome would give a lot of the private car experience although not on a railroad, but in general a lot more practicle and useful, with unlimited destinations, supreme flexibility, etc. And if you need your 'fix' on the rails, you could always buy a ride on someone else's PV.....

[Anderson]

At the risk of being accused of a very dark cynicism about the future of the economy, I'm actually worried about fuel consumption costs there. Assuming that I simply replicated my long-distance Amtrak trips from last year and mostly stuck to a bee-line route, you'd have (rounded to the nearest ten to fifty at my discretion):
VA-Central Florida (x2): 760 miles*4=1520
VA-Des Moines, Iowa (x1): 1150 miles*2=2300
VA-Flagstaff, Arizona (x2): 2200 miles*4=8800
Total Miles: 12,600

My understanding is that fuel alone could run $10,000 or more per year on that mileage (at current rates). Mind you, I know there are other charges for this as well...but I also know there are lots of haulage charges for a PV (as well as some...very different costs which I know that I couldn't imagine at the moment that would undoubtedly come up along the way above and beyond things such as replacement wheels and so forth). My concern also isn't the $10,000 now...it's more that the use of one is highly dependent on fuel prices, and I can sadly envision a situation where that number doubles in real terms in the next decade and keeps marching.*

With that said, it's not a bad idea in a vacuum (so long as I've got one or more capable friends to split the driving with...one of the things I prefer about taking the train is not having to drive, though a motor home certainly does have the appeal of not having to worry about hotels almost wherever I go). So, in pursuit of this as a shorter-term (but by no means a "next week") option, how much would one of those likely set me back?



*Of course, if you'd asked me when I was about ten, I'd have been unable to envision this...and I'd have probably been able to envision it quite clearly in the late 1970s. Such is history and such is life.

[Alice]

At the risk of being accused of a very dark cynicism about the future of the economy, I'm actually worried about fuel consumption costs there. Assuming that I simply replicated my long-distance Amtrak trips from last year and mostly stuck to a bee-line route, you'd have (rounded to the nearest ten to fifty at my discretion):
VA-Central Florida (x2): 760 miles*4=1520
VA-Des Moines, Iowa (x1): 1150 miles*2=2300
VA-Flagstaff, Arizona (x2): 2200 miles*4=8800
Total Miles: 12,600

My understanding is that fuel alone could run $10,000 or more per year on that mileage (at current rates). Mind you, I know there are other charges for this as well...but I also know there are lots of haulage charges for a PV (as well as some...very different costs which I know that I couldn't imagine at the moment that would undoubtedly come up along the way above and beyond things such as replacement wheels and so forth). My concern also isn't the $10,000 now...it's more that the use of one is highly dependent on fuel prices, and I can sadly envision a situation where that number doubles in real terms in the next decade and keeps marching.*

With that said, it's not a bad idea in a vacuum (so long as I've got one or more capable friends to split the driving with...one of the things I prefer about taking the train is not having to drive, though a motor home certainly does have the appeal of not having to worry about hotels almost wherever I go). So, in pursuit of this as a shorter-term (but by no means a "next week") option, how much would one of those likely set me back?



*Of course, if you'd asked me when I was about ten, I'd have been unable to envision this...and I'd have probably been able to envision it quite clearly in the late 1970s. Such is history and such is life.

I rented RVs once. They were nearly free of daily rates and there was no mileage fee as they were a special deal to take an RV from CA to be serviced in AZ, and to bring a different unit back. Both ways I took rather circuitous routes to get more of a feel for the rigs. However, and this was big, I paid gas. I could have rented motels the whole trip for difference in price between the RVs and my car at the time.

[rrdude]

I think the Wyndham T/S - lodging firm is the only one I know of with any connection to AGR, and it's been a few years since I looked at it, so don't know what the earnings potential / transfers are.

[Ispolkom]

I could have rented motels the whole trip for difference in price between the RVs and my car at the time.

When I look at how much an RV would cost, and divide that price over the number of nights I'd actually use it, the per-night cost is more than that of a luxury hotel. Given that in a hotel someone else cleans the bathroom, makes the bed, and picks up the towels, the choice is clear to me.

[AlanB]

I think the Wyndham T/S - lodging firm is the only one I know of with any connection to AGR, and it's been a few years since I looked at it, so don't know what the earnings potential / transfers are.

There are several hotel chains that let one earn AGR points besides Wyndham. A quick list off the top of my head includes Hilton Honors, Comfort Inn chain, Lowes, Omni, and LaQuinta.