New Orleans to Jacksonville on Sunset Limited

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THSFChris

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Nov 2, 2011
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Any idea when the New Orleans to Jacksonville route will be re-added to the Sunset Limited line? I love Amtrak and its service... having this route back would allow for quicker travel to Florida. especially to Orlando and Miami from Texas. As it stands now.. you have to go to Chicago and Washington DC just to get to Florida on Amtrak.. Go North to go southeast..
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This is a big can of worms you're about to open here. :ph34r:

To make a long story short, Amtrak has made it pretty clear that they do not want to resume the service.

Presumably because the full route loses even more money than the chopped off route currently in service.

And there is little if any political support between LA and FL.

So I guess you could say... Not anytime soon!

It seems far more likely to me that the remaining segments would be discontinued before you'd see the rest of the route resume service.

I'm in Texas and it would be fun to take the train to Orlando, but those days appear to be over. -_-
 
He pretty much is right. I even heard word that some people want the train back, but not the way it was before. Three things could happen.

1. The train may get discontinued before it even has a chance to make it to east of New Orleans since it and the Cardinal along with a few other trains are up for discontinuation. Once those routes are gone they hard to bring back too. Look at the NCH and Pioneer.

2. Somehow UP lowers the price tag for a daily SL and a stub train runs from New Orleans to Jacksonville or Orlando.

3. Political pressure increases for the train's return. Then the SL will make it journey east of New Orleans again.

Note how I put all three of these scenarios in order from what's likely to happen to least likely to happen.
 
I just find it flat out stupid that you have to go all that distance through Chicago and Washington DC just to get to Florida... I love the train and I detest the plane. Even if there was a quicker route from Dallas/Houston through Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Atlanta and Charlotte it would make things a whole hell of a lot easier. I have spoken to quite a few people in Florida and they would absolutely love it if Amtrak would resume the service. It is much more desired than what the politicians and big wigs in Amtrak's Washington headquarters think.
 
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It'd be nice to take the train everywhere.

But unfortunately in our country, highways are more "supported."

So I'll take the train to wherever the tracks can take me lol
 
Hypothetically speaking, is it possible to run a day train between NOL-MIA? Or is that too long without sleepers?

Because that is the only way (and with state support) that I could ever see this route come back.

Anything is possible but I think it is more likely that UP will have a change of heart and let the TE/SL run daily than see the SL run coast to coast again.
 
THE CJ said:
It's not easy to restore a route that was discontinued or as I should say "suspended".
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Actually it's a lot easier to restore a route that was "suspended" than a route that what discontinued. Which is why Amtrak continues to say that the route is suspended, despite the fact that the suspension is now several years long. Suspended means that CSX must allow Amtrak to run the train again if the day comes that Amtrak decides to try and that CSX can't make huge demands like UP is currently doing to go from 3 days to 7 days and it preserves for Amtrak the very low rate that it pays to use the tracks.

If Amtrak discontinues the route, then CSX gets to make demands and can charge Amtrak a higher price per mile for passage.
 
AlanB said:
THE CJ said:
It's not easy to restore a route that was discontinued or as I should say "suspended".
Click to expand...
Actually it's a lot easier to restore a route that was "suspended" than a route that what discontinued. Which is why Amtrak continues to say that the route is suspended, despite the fact that the suspension is now several years long. Suspended means that CSX must allow Amtrak to run the train again if the day comes that Amtrak decides to try and that CSX can't make huge demands like UP is currently doing to go from 3 days to 7 days and it preserves for Amtrak the very low rate that it pays to use the tracks.

If Amtrak discontinues the route, then CSX gets to make demands and can charge Amtrak a higher price per mile for passage.
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Actually, this raises a question: Why hasn't Amtrak used the "suspended" trick before? If nothing else, "suspending" some of the Western trains and then using an offer to actually discontinue them in exchange for concessions on the Sunset, for example, would make an unpleasant amount of sense.
 
CSX doesn't run a lot of freight between Flomaton and Baldwin, and about half of this line is dark. Installing PTC wouldn't be cheap, and the issue is who pays for it. I believe the Mobile station has been razed. Amtrak's operating grant from Congress appears to have taken a hit, and the question is whether trains will be cut not added. Looks like a "when pigs fly" situation to me. The problem with a standalone daytime NOL-MIA train: going east, it would have a very early morning departure from NOL and a very late evening arrival into MIA, with a narrow window to turn the train for westbound departure. Truncating the train to central or north Florida would make more sense. .
 
Gratt said:
Hypothetically speaking, is it possible to run a day train between NOL-MIA? Or is that too long without sleepers?

Because that is the only way (and with state support) that I could ever see this route come back.

Anything is possible but I think it is more likely that UP will have a change of heart and let the TE/SL run daily than see the SL run coast to coast again.
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No, a day train is not possible. It took close to 24 hours for the Sunset to run from NOL to MIA. ALso, in the preAmtrak days when a connection was made at Jacksonville between the Gulf Wind and the Silver Meteor the time was also about 24 hours.
 
the_traveler said:
THE CJ said:
Somehow UP lowers the price tag for a daily SL and a stub train runs from New Orleans to Jacksonville or Orlando.
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The SAS-NOL segment would be UP, but the NOL-Florida segment is CSX!
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I am aware of that. It makes me wonder though. If CSX doesn't run much trains between Flomaton and Baldwin why don't Amtrak just purchase or attempt to purchase the tracks from them? Better yet have the states purchase the tracks from CSX?
 
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AlanB said:
THE CJ said:
It's not easy to restore a route that was discontinued or as I should say "suspended".
Click to expand...
Actually it's a lot easier to restore a route that was "suspended" than a route that what discontinued. Which is why Amtrak continues to say that the route is suspended, despite the fact that the suspension is now several years long. Suspended means that CSX must allow Amtrak to run the train again if the day comes that Amtrak decides to try and that CSX can't make huge demands like UP is currently doing to go from 3 days to 7 days and it preserves for Amtrak the very low rate that it pays to use the tracks.

If Amtrak discontinues the route, then CSX gets to make demands and can charge Amtrak a higher price per mile for passage.
Click to expand...
Now that I didn't know.
 
THE CJ said:
I am aware of that. It makes me wonder though. If CSX doesn't run much trains between Flomaton and Baldwin why don't Amtrak just purchase or attempt to purchase the tracks from them? Better yet have the states purchase the tracks from CSX?
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For one train a day this makes no sense. You would still be left with the huge cost to add PTC.

The line's current low traffic volume status is primarily a return to the pre ACL+SAL and then Family Lines condition. Since L&N was for all pracitcal purposes a subsidiary of ACL there was little traffic exchanged between L&N and SAL at Chattahoochie. Most east-west traffic that did not have an SAL origin would have been swapped between L&N and ACL at Montgomery AL. At the time that the Gulf Wind was still running the L&N portion was in 100 lb jointed rail and had a 55 mph passenger train speed limit. After the Family Lines the CSX souteastern Borg the L&N oportion got second hand 132 lb rail welded, the low and slow Escambia Bay draw bridge was replaced with a high level concrete bridge, and a few long sidings were added. For a while there was quite a bit of freight routed this way. I think this has gone away as much because of the current CSX, and maybe others, philosophy of putting as many trains on as few miles of track as possible.as any scheme to push costs of this line onto Amtrak, particularly since is appears that some if not most of this traffic shift happened after Amtrak went away.
 
Texas Sunset said:
I thought BNSF controlled the track between Lake Charles and New Orleans?
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Yes. To be exact, the point of change in ownership is Iowa Jct. UP has rights on the BNSF to New Orleans, and BNSF has rights on UP west of Iowa Jct to Houston. This change in ownership was part of the UP+SP merger. For those that don't knwo: Iowa Jct is about 10 miles east of Lake Charles. It was the point where the MoPac line from Lake Charles to Alexandria crossed the SP. After the UP takeover of SP the last few miles of the ex MoPac into Lake Charles was abandoned. The line between Iowa Jct and Kinder was upgraded to 49 mph from 25 mph adn the track arrangementn at the junctchanged to favor the move from the ex SP to the west to this track.
 
Shawn Ryu said:
Amtrak should just end it and quash all the rumors about bringing this section back. it will never happen ever.
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Who is to say it won't happen?? Everyone here knows that the Jacksonville-New Orleans part of the Sunset Limited might still be running today if it wasn't for Hurricane Katrina running rampant through the New Orleans and Mobile Bay areas. Hurricane Katrina has still to this day wrecked havoc in some way, shape or form, whether it be economically or politically. Amtrak in many ways, was essential to the growth and sustainability of the daily and weekly flow of transportation and business in this stretch of rail. Now this is gone, for now at least. Bringing Amtrak back gives these towns more hope and more alternatives. Furthermore, bringing this route back will end this ridiculous and idiotic notion that you have to go to the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic to get to and from Texas and Florida, which are two of the top four states in regards to population.
 
If CSX doesn't run much trains between Flomaton and Baldwin why don't Amtrak just purchase or attempt to purchase the tracks from them? Better yet have the states purchase the tracks from CSX?
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Where would Amtrak get the cash? It doesn't exist. No sense asking the states of Alabama or Florida to put up the money. They don't care.
 
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xyzzy said:
If CSX doesn't run much trains between Flomaton and Baldwin why don't Amtrak just purchase or attempt to purchase the tracks from them? Better yet have the states purchase the tracks from CSX?
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Where would Amtrak get the cash?
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I don't know. I don't work at Amtrak. That was just a suggestion and nothing more.
 
I guess bringing it back would need some substantial pressure from both advocacy groups and states along the corridor, as it would add to Amtraks operating deficit.

Lining up a group of states that are very conservative and have shown very little interest in rail in recent years is not very likely. It is also quite understandable that they don't want to pay to get a service back that everybody else gets for free.

However the reason why Amtrak has kept it on suspended status instead of abandonment must be that there is some interest in reintroducing service one day. As someone has said it makes things a great deal easier with CSX and not less important it would probably also make it possible to restart service without a congressional mandate. Amtrak is prohibited to start any new service that loses money, but technically the Sunset East is not new - just on a very long suspension.

Now given the economic and political obstacles I would suggest an incremental approach to get things rolling. The most obvious (and missed) part of the route is probably the Mobile-Biloxi-NOLA corridor. What if Amtrak gave Misissippi and Alabama a really good offer, that might get them to get aboard anyhow: If you pay for a corridor train four days a week, we will extend the SSL to Mobile the remaining three - pay for four, get seven...

As I understand it enough equipment for both is sitting around in NOLA anyway, so the extension should cost a relatively limeted amount of money to run, if any could be found at all. And for Amtrak, ridership on the extended SSL will probably be better if it is part of a daily service, as that draws more local traffic. I have not looked into running times Mobile-NOLA, but the current schedule looks like providing pretty good departure times for a morning train westbound and returning afternoon train.

Granted this will not bring people to Florida right away, but I see several political gains. First it might up the pressure on the rest of the route so that a more railfriendly congress at some point throws in the extra money needed to support the full reinstatement. Second it will also put a spotlight on UP's ridiculousness on the western part of the route, when it comes to going daily, or if that still doesn't move the giant to make a payable slot for a full daily train, it might get Texas and Louisiana interested in doing a similar corridor four day fill in NOLA - SAS. Which brings me to the third and maybe most important gain. It will be the first state supported corridor in the deep South, arguably the most underserved region of the country today. The region badly needs examples of well working corridors that could inspire to more...
 
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