OT: Your right to photograph in public places

Mr. Moderator: given that many of us enjoy photographing trains, I respectfully suggest this information needs the widest possible dissemination within our community. I understand if you want to delete, lock, and/or sticky this topic, but I really think this information needs to get out. Thanks.

The National Press Photographer's Association, or NPPA, has become greatly concerned of late with law enforcement attempting to restrict photography of and in public places under the guise of "homeland security." The organization commissioned the Washington DC law firm of Covington & Burling to write a memorandum on "The rights of journalists on public streets." While much of the information in this memo is targeted at media organizations, all of us in the railroad enthusiast community who enjoy photographing trains would do well to read what is said in this memorandum. Here's an excerpt from the announcement:

Singled out from their memorandum are these significant points:
   * The Constitution protects the media’s right to freely gather news, which includes the right to make photographs in a public forum;

   * There is no federal law that would prohibit photography in public places or restrict photography of public places and/or structures;

   * Any restrictions that the government does impose would need to have supporting evidence that it was essential for public safety. The burden is on the government;

   * Government officials cannot single out news cameras for removal while continuing to allow the general public to remain in a location, particularly if the public is taking pictures;

   * When journalists are denied access, they should avoid confrontation and arrest and instead gather as much information as possible so that they can later seek relief through proper channels.

Click to expand...

You can find the annoucement, along with a PDF link to the memo here.

Here is a site that may be of interest, too. I have printed this and carry it with me in my camera bag.

Photographers Rights

I agree with your opinion for most parts. I am currently a railroad major in Sacramento being taught by the best of the best. After I finish school in December, I will immediately be working for Amtrak conducting the pacific surfliners. After the extensive knowledge of railroading, the thing engineers and employees are most scared of now is not knowing what is going on when we pass someone close to the tracks. Whenever we see someone next to the tracks, camera in hand or not, we are instantly thinking, "oh god, am I going to have to slam this into emergency?, did this guy throw the switch, etc, etc..". Yes, switches are locked, but after going through the many strenuous classes taught by the heads of the biggest railroads, only then can you fully understand why this is happening. I love photographing engines or trains driving by (do you know the difference?), but now after the schooling, I am a little more skeptical. I hope this helps, but I doubt it.

Geoff Parker

Nobody who has sabotaged the tracks is going to stand right there beside them and run the risk of a painful, non-instantaneous death from a derailing train. The suicide bombers (the ones "wearing clothing by DuPont" as Tom Clancy is wont to say) no doubt are expecting an instantaneous transport to paradise, no pain involved, and I expect that at least the instantaneous death part probably is accurate, although I hope they find themselves knocking on the gates of Hell instead. But I just don't buy the idea of a saboteur standing there beside the tracks to take pictures and either get maimed by a derailing train or be identified by all those eyewitnesses on the train who probably will survive (the majority of people on the train, if history is any indication) to testify against him/her. Time for a dose of reality here. You are far more likely to get derailed by the poor maintenance of a freight railroad, or from human error by a crew or dispatch than you are from anybody who looks like a railfan. Any argument to the contrary is a cop-out by those who just don't want to deal with railfans and who want a scapegoat for their own errors.

AmtrakWPK said:

The suicide bombers (the ones "wearing clothing by DuPont" as Tom Clancy is wont to say) no doubt are expecting an instantaneous transport to paradise, no pain involved, and I expect that at least the instantaneous death part probably is accurate, although I hope they find themselves knocking on the gates of Hell instead.

Click to expand...

Trust me.............they don't wake up in paradise and there ain't a covey of virgins waiting for them!

Bert P. Krages II, a Portland Oregon attorney, has webpublished a quickie guide to your right to photograph in public places.

Here's the quickie linkie: Your right to photograph in public places

An excerpt:

On occasion, law enforcement officers may object to photography but most understand that people have the right to take photographs and do not interfere with photographers. They do have the right to keep you away from areas where you may impede their activities or endanger safety. However, they do not have the legal right to prohibit you from taking photographs from other locations.

Click to expand...

The folks over at Newslab.org also suggest paying attention to this website:

Photopermit.org

This site covers issues of interest to press photographers, but as far as I am concerned, their right to make press photographs is our right to make train photographs.

Some interesting commentary on how things have changed for the worse for us as photographers, from one who had to learn the trade in secret under a totalitarian regieme:

Antonin Kratochvil commentary

Sorry, folks, but I'm on a photography rights kick today.

We have recently had this problem in Chicago.

UP Railroad decided to impose an all out ban on photography of Metra trains from stations / platforms shortly after the plot to bomb incoming international flights to the U.S. was made public.

As you can imagine, the thousands of railfans and local attorneys took the railroad to task, and made the news by raising lots of noise in respect to freedom of expression, the first amendment, censorship, and so forth.

The IlliniRail yahoo group was beseiged with tons of activity on the list on this topic.

I am glad that someone raised alot of noise, otherwise we'd all be viewed as "photo terrorists" and any other label that lefty can come up with.

Shortly before the ban, I had been rail photographing when approached by an engineer and told to "be careful" because "Security" and the "Police" would have a heart attack over "Homeland Security Issues". I thanked him, and put my camera away.

UP Railroad ended up rescinding the policy.

Thanks to those of you who provided the photo rights links!

Best To All!

Illinois Zephyr said:

We have recently had this problem in Chicago. UP Railroad decided to impose an all out ban on photography of Metra trains from stations / platforms shortly after the plot to bomb incoming international flights to the U.S. was made public.

As you can imagine, the thousands of railfans and local attorneys took the railroad to task, and made the news by raising lots of noise in respect to freedom of expression, the first amendment, censorship, and so forth.

The IlliniRail yahoo group was beseiged with tons of activity on the list on this topic.

I am glad that someone raised alot of noise, otherwise we'd all be viewed as "photo terrorists" and any other label that lefty can come up with.

Shortly before the ban, I had been rail photographing when approached by an engineer and told to "be careful" because "Security" and the "Police" would have a heart attack over "Homeland Security Issues". I thanked him, and put my camera away.

UP Railroad ended up rescinding the policy.

Thanks to those of you who provided the photo rights links!

Best To All!

Click to expand...

Here is a LINK to a recent forum discussion on the Chicago/UP situation, if you are interested.