EB cancellations?

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I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
 
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Rider said:
I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
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North Dakota is a disaster right now; if you can change to the Zephyr without a major penalty and disrupting your travel plans too much I'd strongly consider it. The EB's best arrival time in Chicago was 40 minutes late, but the median is 202 minutes (over 3 1/2 hours), and that's leaving aside a couple days when it couldn't get through at all. I went third week of May and and we got in about 3 hours 45 minutes late--mostly due to freight congestion in North Dakota, plus slow orders from the flooding. The EB is having no luck whatsoever this year and there's very little Amtrak, BNSF or ND can do about it in the short term.
 
Rider said:
I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...
If I were you I'd rebook on the CZ. I'd enjoy the rest of my trip more not wondering if I had a ride back to CHI.
 
The EB is cancelled due to waves on Devils Lake pushing debris onto the tracks. As it is the lake is about 1-2 feet below track level so this will happen during every high wind event (not uncommon in North Dakota). I believe the train is cancelled today (5/31) and tomorrow (6/1) with service planned to resume on 6/2. That seems likely given that the winds will subside in the near future, although if the track is damaged the cancellations could be extended.

The contingency plan was to re-route the EB onto the Surrey Cutoff, a shorter route between Minot and Fargo that is used by the majority of BNSF freights. Ordinarily this would be as fast as, or slightly faster than, the regular routing. This spring, however, saturated soil conditions caused by snowmelt, flooding, and now rain have imposed frequent work windows and slow orders on the Surrey Cutoff. That has made it difficult for BNSF to keep their 20-40 daily freights moving on this single-track line and has resulted in 4-8 hour delays when the EB runs on this route.

At the moment there is no blockage or washout preventing the EB from utilizing the detour route; either Amtrak prefers cancellation to running 6-8 hours late or BNSF is unwilling to delay their trains further by waiting for Amtrak. Both seem equally plausible and since I don't work for either company I can't say why the decision to cancel was made.

Until the Surrey Cutoff dries out (probably a month or so barring additional rain) or the Devils Lake level drops (likely months to years), the EB route across North Dakota will be touch-and-go, with very poor OTP and likely the occasional cancellation/bustitution.

~Mark
 
Rider said:
I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...
SpeedDial AGR ASAP and Book the Zephyr before it fills up! :help: You may have to be Flexible on Dates since it's such a Popular Train but it Beats Sitting in the Wilds of Montana for Hours or Riding a Bus :angry2: , plus the Scenery is Better! :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rider said:
I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Personally I would rebook on the CZ provided there are still sleepers available. However, I tend to be an anxious/nervous/worrying type of person, so I know that I wouldn't be able to relax if I had concerns about the train not running.
 
anir dendroica said:
I believe the train is cancelled today (5/31) and tomorrow (6/1) with service planned to resume on 6/2. That seems likely given that the winds will subside in the near future, although if the track is damaged the cancellations could be extended.

~Mark
Click to expand...
According to AGR when I called today regarding my EB trip, Saturday June 4 is the first day they're allowed to book the EB. The Amtrak website allows a booking on Friday, but not for today, tomorrow or Thursday.
 
Rebooking on the CZ seems to be the safest bet, since it looks like the EB's troubles in North Dakota won't be resolved soon.
 
Lots of talk about the Eastbound Empire Builder being late or cancelled. What about the Westbouind?
 
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I'm scheduled on the EB from Spokane to Seattle on June 21st and from Portland back to Spokane on June 24th. I'm going no further than Seattle and Portland, so no connections to worry about. I hope I don't have to be bustituted, but if so that's the way it goes.
 
Update (again thanks to Mark M. on the EB Yahoo Group):

The Souris River near Minot is expected to flood the BNSF northern transcon in the next few days, cresting up to a foot above the rail. This is a small river which will fall rapidly after cresting, so barring major washouts the line won't be out of service for too long. Not looking good for departures before June 4 though....

Mark
 
anir dendroica said:
The EB is cancelled due to waves on Devils Lake pushing debris onto the tracks. As it is the lake is about 1-2 feet below track level so this will happen during every high wind event (not uncommon in North Dakota). I believe the train is cancelled today (5/31) and tomorrow (6/1) with service planned to resume on 6/2. That seems likely given that the winds will subside in the near future, although if the track is damaged the cancellations could be extended.

The contingency plan was to re-route the EB onto the Surrey Cutoff, a shorter route between Minot and Fargo that is used by the majority of BNSF freights. Ordinarily this would be as fast as, or slightly faster than, the regular routing. This spring, however, saturated soil conditions caused by snowmelt, flooding, and now rain have imposed frequent work windows and slow orders on the Surrey Cutoff. That has made it difficult for BNSF to keep their 20-40 daily freights moving on this single-track line and has resulted in 4-8 hour delays when the EB runs on this route.

At the moment there is no blockage or washout preventing the EB from utilizing the detour route; either Amtrak prefers cancellation to running 6-8 hours late or BNSF is unwilling to delay their trains further by waiting for Amtrak. Both seem equally plausible and since I don't work for either company I can't say why the decision to cancel was made.

Until the Surrey Cutoff dries out (probably a month or so barring additional rain) or the Devils Lake level drops (likely months to years), the EB route across North Dakota will be touch-and-go, with very poor OTP and likely the occasional cancellation/bustitution.

~Mark
Click to expand...
I just left #8 after taking the Surrey cutoff last night. We pulled out of Minot at 2345 and arrived Fargo at 0800. We did not have any priority, and ran in to lots of slow orders. BNSF and Amtrak are doing the best they can, but the weather is unrelenting. Storms overnight also took down power lines and clogged tracks in Minnesota with debris. We made several stops to protect crossings because of disrupted power and damaged eqipment. On top of the issues in ND and MN, eastern Montana had the worst of the flooding from what I saw. I think the EB is going to be facing disruptions with that very soon when the tremendous snowpack starts to melt......and things are already precarious at best.

The positive side of all of this is that the EB crew we had with us on this trip was top notch....almost to the point that we enjoyed the delays. But, I don't see the EB's woes ending for several weeks if not months.
 
Thanks much for all the replies. I called and changed to the CZ, same dates all around so the rest of the reservation is intact.

Whew (sigh of relief). I mean, I had a hard time deciding between EB and CZ when I made the res, have been telling people so far how great the Rockies are, now I get to see them again myself.

We're stopped right now at Fort Madison in view of the Mighty Mississippi, and the tide is looking kinda high on it here too!

What a lovely evening to be starting out on the SWC.
 
Minot Evacuation

Maybe Anthony needs to expand the AU site to add an Empire Builder discussion category, HA!

Like others, I'm not sure where to post EB stuff any more. Be that as it may, large parts of Minot are being evacuated today due to flooding.

Here's a map locating the Amtrak station ( 400 1st Ave SW, Minot, ND 58701 ).

Here's an area of flood evacuation map, I think from the City. It's a .pdf but user can zoom in or Loupe tool.

So like they say, do not get left in Minot...and on topic, I'd book on the California Zephyr.
 
jimhudson said:
Rider said:
I am in Chicago Union Station waiting for the SWC to depart. I see that today's EB is cancelled beyond the first few stops - due to flooding somewhere. "No alternate transportation provided."

I am planning on returning East in about 10 days on the EB. Would it be prudent to alter my reservation to return on the CZ instead? Amtrak won't predict whether EB will be running normally then. They have not notified me of any service disruption - but if I wait til the 11th hour to reschedule I might not be able to get a roomette ..... itr's a rewards trip and I hate to mess that part up.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...
SpeedDial AGR ASAP and Book the Zephyr before it fills up! :help: You may have to be Flexible on Dates since it's such a Popular Train but it Beats Sitting in the Wilds of Montana for Hours or Riding a Bus :angry2: , plus the Scenery is Better! :)
Click to expand...
I just spoke with Amtrak. The EB is cancelled through the 4th, but they are going to reevaluate by noon tomorrow (June 1). :help:
 
Thanks for the update. We are suppose to take our first train ride to Minot on the 4th, but it doesn't look too promising. We have been planning this trip for a while, we are so disappointed. Guess I had better go find a boat!
 
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