Maple Leaf border procedure

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NorthCoastHiawatha

OBS Chief
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Feb 21, 2009
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543
Location
Bellingham, WA
Next week im traveling from Bellingham to Vancouver and then taking the Canadian to Toronto. I decided to take the Maple Leaf to Buffalo and fly back from there because it ends up saving me 200 over a direct flight. Anyway, as I have never taken the Maple Leaf before, what is the border procedure (I know its not as simple as the Cascades). I have heard that you detrain and go through customs in the station?
 
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Others may speak to this better than I, since it's been a few years since I've crossed at Niagara...

As of a few years ago, Border Patrol walk through the train to process the crossing passengers. They were still pretty meticulous, but we didn't need to get off for any inspections or customs.

The unusual part was that I did need to call to get tickets instead of getting them online, probably because they needed the passport information.
 
I read on here that now they are making everyone get off the train and stand in a small crowed area on the platform after inspection.
 
I remember reading the same thing as amtrakwolverine. Maybe do a search and see if you can pull up the thread b
 
What a shame crossing the border is getting so full of hastle. Almost like airport security, but thankfully, not quite as bad. Yet.

I remember the good old days when you could ride the train from Buffalo through Ontario to Detroit, and not even need to show ID.
 
A few people reported that Canadian customs had started taking people off the train at Niagara Falls, Ontario when crossing into Canada. It currently unconfirmed if this is the norm or the exception. Although the CBSA has made it clear that they much prefer and want to find ways to take everyone off the train for customs. That's one reason that Amtrak is looking at changing the terminus of the Adirondack in Montreal to a different station.

All that said, NorthCoast is coming back to America. SOP for US customs is to do customs on the train and typically only taking those who must pay entrance fees, duty fees, or have questions raised about their documents or intents into the special facilities setup in Niagara Falls, NY. On rare occasions they have emptied the train if they had some intel that indicated a possible issue, but again that isn't the norm.

When I came back last July, after riding the Canadian, I was cleared while sitting in my BC seat as was my mom and most everyone else on the train. Maybe 15 to 20 people were taken off and brought into the facility.
 
Well the Cascades sees you doing part of the Customs work in the station in Vancouver and then the other part just after crossing the US border.

In the case of the Maple Leaf everything gets done once you cross the border, since the train isn't sealed from Toronto to the border. In fact the train makes multiple stops and actually runs as a VIA Rail train to enhance their service.
 
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Well the Cascades sees you doing part of the Customs work in the station in Vancouver and then the other part just after crossing the US border.

In the case of the Maple Leaf everything gets done once you cross the border, since the train isn't sealed from Toronto to the border. In fact the train makes multiple stops and actually runs as a VIA Rail train to enhance their service.
That's true on the Adirondack too, since it stops at St. Lambert in Canada.
 
Traveled a year ago on both Maple Leaf, NB, and Adirondack, SB.

On ML, once we crossed the bridge into Canada, we sat on the train, Canadian agents came on, they took a few people off, but the bulk (think the PAX load was about 65) stayed on.

On the Adirondack, once we crossed the boarder, and got near the inspection station, US Customs came on, and did the very same thing, only taking a few off. It was faster going south.

In both instances, they made it clear that once the customs officials boarded the train, you were NOT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR SEAT, even to use the bathroom, until you were told it was OK........And that is after ALL the agents detrain.
 
In both instances, they made it clear that once the customs officials boarded the train, you were NOT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR SEAT, even to use the bathroom, until you were told it was OK........And that is after ALL the agents detrain.
Just an FYI, the same rule about staying in your seats is in force on the US Customs inspection at Blaine, WA on the southbound Cascades trains, too.
 
Yeah, I always laugh at the bathroom thing though, since that's something that they cannot deny you the use of. As I learned several years ago when I had troubles getting into Canada, the only rights you have are those granted by the Geneva Convention, until you are cleared. One of the rights under the Geneva Convention is the right to use the facilities.

I don't think that it explicitly states that, but there are certain humane rights that you're granted, and those rights by default would include allowing for the use of the facilities.

That said, I generally try to go shortly before reaching the border just because it's better to avoid confrontations. But I have gotten up to go to the bathroom while customs was still on board a train once they went through my car.
 
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In both instances, they made it clear that once the customs officials boarded the train, you were NOT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR SEAT, even to use the bathroom, until you were told it was OK........And that is after ALL the agents detrain.
Just an FYI, the same rule about staying in your seats is in force on the US Customs inspection at Blaine, WA on the southbound Cascades trains, too.
Blaine is effectively a Customs Form collection stop AFAICT. The process being analogous to what they do at the exit from the CBP checkpoint at airports. A very occasional person may be picked up for further inspection but mostly it is collection of the forms. The last time I passed by there they didn't even talk to me and hardly even looked towards me, just picked up the form and were on their way.

I don't think that it explicitly states that, but there are certain humane rights that you're granted, and those rights by default would include allowing for the use of the facilities.

That said, I generally try to go shortly before reaching the border just because it's better to avoid confrontations. But I have gotten up to go to the bathroom while customs was still on board a train once they went through my car.
Usually, once they have done the sweep through the car, they don't really care to be too strict about the "stay in your seat" bit. It is more headache to enforce that than it is worth I suppose.
 
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In both instances, they made it clear that once the customs officials boarded the train, you were NOT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR SEAT, even to use the bathroom, until you were told it was OK........And that is after ALL the agents detrain.
Just an FYI, the same rule about staying in your seats is in force on the US Customs inspection at Blaine, WA on the southbound Cascades trains, too.
Blaine is effectively a Customs Form collection stop AFAICT. The process being analogous to what they do at the exit from the CBP checkpoint at airports. A very occasional person may be picked up for further inspection but mostly it is collection of the forms. The last time I passed by there they didn't even talk to me and hardly even looked towards me, just picked up the form and were on their way.

I don't think that it explicitly states that, but there are certain humane rights that you're granted, and those rights by default would include allowing for the use of the facilities.

That said, I generally try to go shortly before reaching the border just because it's better to avoid confrontations. But I have gotten up to go to the bathroom while customs was still on board a train once they went through my car.
Usually, once they have done the sweep through the car, they don't really care to be too strict about the "stay in your seat" bit. It is more headache to enforce that than it is worth I suppose.
Barring a security issue, I think it's probably a lawsuit waiting to happen when that one person had to use the restroom...
 
Blaine is effectively a Customs Form collection stop AFAICT. The process being analogous to what they do at the exit from the CBP checkpoint at airports. A very occasional person may be picked up for further inspection but mostly it is collection of the forms. The last time I passed by there they didn't even talk to me and hardly even looked towards me, just picked up the form and were on their way.
So why can't this happen at the station in VAC? If you can pre-clear both immigration AND customs at many Canadian airports, why can't you do

this on the Cascades trains? After all, isn't the train "sealed" once it leaves VAC?
 
Blaine is effectively a Customs Form collection stop AFAICT. The process being analogous to what they do at the exit from the CBP checkpoint at airports. A very occasional person may be picked up for further inspection but mostly it is collection of the forms. The last time I passed by there they didn't even talk to me and hardly even looked towards me, just picked up the form and were on their way.
So why can't this happen at the station in VAC? If you can pre-clear both immigration AND customs at many Canadian airports, why can't you do

this on the Cascades trains? After all, isn't the train "sealed" once it leaves VAC?
If you want an answer from the horse's mouth, in a manner of speaking, I suggest that you go to the FAQ page associated with the CBP Home Page and pose the question there and see if they answer. :) Try the Ask a Question page.
 
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The train is not sealed after it leaves VAC. When we took it in June, the train stopped shortly after leaving the station and someone jumped off to manually throw a switch. Then when we came to a river crossing, the train had to stop again to wait for a ship to pass and the the bridge to be put back into place before we could cross.
 
Blaine is effectively a Customs Form collection stop AFAICT. The process being analogous to what they do at the exit from the CBP checkpoint at airports. A very occasional person may be picked up for further inspection but mostly it is collection of the forms. The last time I passed by there they didn't even talk to me and hardly even looked towards me, just picked up the form and were on their way.
So why can't this happen at the station in VAC? If you can pre-clear both immigration AND customs at many Canadian airports, why can't you do

this on the Cascades trains? After all, isn't the train "sealed" once it leaves VAC?
The reason is that the train between VAC and the border is not considered sealed and secured from a customs standpoint. The Blaine stop is a secondary stop to spot check that nothing has been brought on board after departure from VAC.

A good description of Amtrak's pre-clearance program at Vancouver (prepared as a plan to expand the program) is HERE (PDF).
 
Well the Cascades sees you doing part of the Customs work in the station in Vancouver and then the other part just after crossing the US border.

In the case of the Maple Leaf everything gets done once you cross the border, since the train isn't sealed from Toronto to the border. In fact the train makes multiple stops and actually runs as a VIA Rail train to enhance their service.
That's true on the Adirondack too, since it stops at St. Lambert in Canada.
The Adirondack is not like the Maple Leaf. It is Amtrak all the way. ViaRail is not involved at all other than station services in Canada. The Adirondack will not handle any traffic solely between Montreal and St. Lambert. Only international traffic at St. Lambert.

I believe the Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver years ago stopped at New Westminster, BC with the same traffic restriction.
 
Well the Cascades sees you doing part of the Customs work in the station in Vancouver and then the other part just after crossing the US border.

In the case of the Maple Leaf everything gets done once you cross the border, since the train isn't sealed from Toronto to the border. In fact the train makes multiple stops and actually runs as a VIA Rail train to enhance their service.
That's true on the Adirondack too, since it stops at St. Lambert in Canada.
The Adirondack is not like the Maple Leaf. It is Amtrak all the way. ViaRail is not involved at all other than station services in Canada. The Adirondack will not handle any traffic solely between Montreal and St. Lambert. Only international traffic at St. Lambert.

I believe the Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver years ago stopped at New Westminster, BC with the same traffic restriction.
I think the point about the Cascades being cleared in Vancouver and the Adirondack not being cleared in Montreal because of the stop in St. Lambert, QC, is that passengers boarding/detraining in St. Lambert would not have been seen by CBP if all screening took place in Montreal. If, however, the St. Lambert stop were eliminated and space found at Montreal (in Central Station or if service were switched to the Windsor Station replacement), perhaps the Adirondack could operate across the border like the Cascades.
 
Of course, right now the procedure for the Cascades is to get off the bus at the border, collect your luggage, and go into the customs office for clearance. :angry: At least until the rain stops.
 
If you are heading north from Seattle to Vancouver on the train is there any immigration/passport check by USA border people at all?
 
If, however, the St. Lambert stop were eliminated and space found at Montreal (in Central Station or if service were switched to the Windsor Station replacement), perhaps the Adirondack could operate across the border like the Cascades.
BTW, there is no Windsor Station anymore. What remains is a block or two to the west and is called Lucien L'Allier.
 
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If you are heading north from Seattle to Vancouver on the train is there any immigration/passport check by USA border people at all?
No, US border patrol doesn't care who's leaving the country. They only care who is entering the US.

On the other hand when you board the train in Seattle, Amtrak personel will ask to see your passport just to ensure that you have the correct paperwork to enter Canada. If they deliver someone to Canada without the correct paperwork, Amtrak gets the bill from Canada for bringing that person back over the border to the US.
 
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