Christie kiled the ARC tunnel

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20 years of planning(even if its bad planning), and fat boy sends it down the drain.

maybe he does not realize he is screwing middle class, it takes jobs to pay taxes.

It takes transportation to get to these jobs.

If project cost is 8.7 now no matter how you slice it it will be 10.8 when restarted after fat boy is gone.
 
You don't think the opening post was cut back far more than is necessary to avoid copyright complications? Not every infraction requires a sledge hammer to correct. :excl:
 
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daxomni said:
You don't think the opening post was cut back far more than is necessary to avoid copyright complications? Not every infraction requires a sledge hammer to correct.
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The OP quoted the ENTIRE article. That is against copyright rules and the rules of this forum.
 
Good , goodbye flawed other projects killing project , this tunnel has been a NJT Fetish since day one , kinda like the MBTA's Urban Ring BRT.....There poorly planned and don't take in any future expansions.
 
I support Chris Christie. Hes a breath of fresh air compared to the Democrat Corzine.

And hey, NJ cant spend money they dont have. Period.

It takes jobs to pay taxes. But it takes lower taxes to attract jobs.
 
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I don't think it is a coincidence that those who are most upset by Governor Christi canceling the project are not from New Jersey. If New York residents want the tunnel, how about anteing up a few bucks. New Jersey and New Jersey taxpayers were taking a huge risk with this project. If costs ran over estimate, New Jersey would have been on the hook for potentially billions. I am grateful this governor had the courage to pull the plug on a bad deal.

If New York City, New York State, or the feds have a better deal for New Jersey taxpayers, step on up. Otherwise, with no financial stake in the tunnel and nothing to lose if things go wrong, New Yorkers and the New York Times should mind their own business.
 
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Weren't the costs going to be split between the feds ($3 billion), Port Authority ($3 billion), and state of NJ ($2.7 billion)? That doesn't seem to be a completely unreasonable break-down. New Jersey would seem to gain the most from the project, so its share ($2.7 billion plus 1/2 of $3 billion) was largest; New York gains from the project as well, so it ought to bear some of the cost burden, which it would have ($1.5 billion, 1/2 of PA's $3 billion); and the nation as a whole benefits somewhat, so it was to bear some of the burden.

All that being said, I found it quite frustrating that NJT & Amtrak could not work together to find a way to construct and tunnel that would serve both railroads.
 
Eric S said:
Weren't the costs going to be split between the feds ($3 billion), Port Authority ($3 billion), and state of NJ ($2.7 billion)? That doesn't seem to be a completely unreasonable break-down. New Jersey would seem to gain the most from the project, so its share ($2.7 billion plus 1/2 of $3 billion) was largest; New York gains from the project as well, so it ought to bear some of the cost burden, which it would have ($1.5 billion, 1/2 of PA's $3 billion); and the nation as a whole benefits somewhat, so it was to bear some of the burden.

All that being said, I found it quite frustrating that NJT & Amtrak could not work together to find a way to construct and tunnel that would serve both railroads.
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The primary source of PA revenue is from bridge and tunnel tolls, and those tolls are primarily paid by NJ residents going into New York. There is relatively little reverse auto commuting from New York into New Jersey. In that respect, the PA contribution is not really 50% from New York. It is primarily from NJ motorists.

More fundamentally, the federal and PA contributions are fixed. If the project comes in on estimate, the NJ contribution would be $2.7 billion. But if the project came in $2 billion over estimate, NJ picks up the entire tab for the overrun. The NJ contribution would balloon to $4.7 billion. Some estimates are now saying the final cost could be $6 billion over estimate. NJ taxpayers would be on the hook for $8.7 billion. NJ and NJ taxpayers are assuming all the risk of this project, and that is a bad deal.

For anyone who thinks the cost of a project like this will not overrun, I have two words: Big Dig.
 
PRR 60 said:
I don't think it is a coincidence that those who are most upset by Governor Christi canceling the project are not from New Jersey. If New York residents want the tunnel, how about anteing up a few bucks. New Jersey and New Jersey taxpayers were taking a huge risk with this project. If costs ran over estimate, New Jersey would have been on the hook for potentially billions. I am grateful this governor had the courage to pull the plug on a bad deal.

If New York City, New York State, or the feds have a better deal for New Jersey taxpayers, step on up. Otherwise, with no financial stake in the tunnel and nothing to lose if things go wrong, New Yorkers and the New York Times should mind their own business.
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This New Yorker, formerly NJ resident who lived in one of the areas that will be most affected by the failure of Christie to continue to the project, happens to be for the project. But I'm for the project not because I see any benefit to NY; there is none. I see the benefit for NJ. NY doesn't care if NJ builds this tunnel. There is no benefit to NY. In fact, NJ's failure to build this tunnel just means that more jobs go to New York residents instead of NJ residents. That's why NY isn't helping to pay.

And while I do understand that NJ would be on the hook for cost overruns and that's not something that allowences were made for, those $6, $7, and $8 Billion numbers being tossed around are numbers that Christie is using simply to justify a decision he had already made a while back. Even the Fed is not predicting such numbers, they're talking maybe $1 to $1.5 Billion in overruns.
 
Christie Halts Train Tunnel, Citing Its Cost

By PATRICK McGEEHANPublished: October 7, 2010

 

The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train tunnel under the Hudson River to Manhattan, was halted on Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey because, he said, the state could not afford its share of the project’s rising cost.

 

Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and advocates of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3 billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money than had been committed to any other transit project in America.

 

The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation officials that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than its original price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have been responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers of the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
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Click on the link above for much more.
 
Dutchrailnut said:
well ARC is back on life support:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/hudson_river_tunnel_project_ma.html
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Comment in response at the link above:

Bearcat21 October 08, 2010 at 4:29PM
See my post from yesterday regarding this story... Christie is a MASTER at poker. He knows that the socialist regime in Washington would never let a monster building project, with thousands of union jobs (voters) hanging in the balance, they'll bail it out.

 

Christie is masterfully playing his hand and in the end will get New Jersey out-from-under this future albatross and the Fed's will pick up the tab or at least assume the risk to the state on any overruns. In the end we'll be at budget... the fed's will get hosed and NJ/NY get their tunnel.

 

Dem's... just come to grips with the fact that this guy is really good. Period.
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MrFSS said:
daxomni said:
You don't think the opening post was cut back far more than is necessary to avoid copyright complications? Not every infraction requires a sledge hammer to correct.
excl.gif
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The OP quoted the ENTIRE article. That is against copyright rules and the rules of this forum.
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And you deleted the ENTIRE article sans links, completely neutering the opening post. Sometimes it's better to use a scalpel instead of machete.
 
what about these plans , mutiple ARC Routes too absorb the regions growth....and to provide thru service... Yes the maker of the maps did notice the errors on some of the lines but by then it was to late.

arc-rethink.jpg


New-York-Regional-Rail-Coda.jpg


Overall-Regional-Rail.jpg


Downtown-Manhattan-Regional-Rail-Map.jpg
 
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jis said:
All I can say is it is easy to draw lines on maps. And just drawing a bunch of lines on a map does not make it a plan ;)
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So we shouldn't have thru service , every other Major Regional Rail system in the world does and NYC doesn't? Thats absurd and stupid to think like that , we need more Rail lines through Manhattan the system needs to be freeded up some more.
 

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