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When Amtrak had the Texas Eagle split at Dallas, with one section going to Houston between 1988 and 1995, how was ridership on that segment? Why was it cut? It seems like this corridor by itself would have high ridership, connecting 2 of the largest metros in the country. Would this corridor justify several 79 mph Amtrak trains today?
 
When Amtrak had the Texas Eagle split at Dallas, with one section going to Houston between 1988 and 1995, how was ridership on that segment? Why was it cut? It seems like this corridor by itself would have high ridership, connecting 2 of the largest metros in the country. Would this corridor justify several 79 mph Amtrak trains today?
There are two routes between Houston and Dallas. The fastest one is the old B-RI route which was 249 miles and at one time was covered in four hours flat. That route had service into the 60's. The other route was the T&NO(SP) route that was somewhat longer, 264 miles, but went through College Station, considered a major traffic generator. When the SP ran the Sunbeam on this route it covered the 264 miles in 264 minutes. Amtrak decided to split the Eagle at Dallas and run a section to Houston using the SP route because they had discontinued the Lone Star(former Texas Chief) which was a very popular train and followed it with a split of the Inter-American at Temple which they then discontinued after only a short time. Unfortunately, in the 30+ years since the SP route had seen passenger service the track conditions had deteriorate to the point that they would not accomodate passenger service. So Amtrak ponied up something like 6 million dollars for track and signal improvements so they could use the route. However, even that only accomodated a schedule of something like 6 hours Dallas to Houston. Not a very satisfactory timing. In spite of this ridership held up for the first few years. But, the SP did not continue to maintain the track at a sufficient level to accomodate the train and it often ran late. The track began to accumulate numerous slow orders. Ridership, which was never huge began to decline further and soon the train was chopped off. Even worse, Amtrak service on the Eagle continued to deteriorate also to the point that it was slated for discontinuance in it's entirety. In fact I believe it had sunk to a three times a week service. Only the efforts of the TEMPO organization saved it so that at least we still have the Eagle as it is now configured. As for service between Houston and Dallas, it is still possible as both route still exist but it would take a commitment from the TXDOT to ever get anything moving and that looks impossible for the forseable future considering the states current budget restraints. The only thing going on now is the possibility of bringing the Sunset Limited up to daily service from the current three times a week. Any kind of California or Illinois type corridor service in this state is way far into the future.

jf
 
Believe it or not, Dallas to Houston is not even in the HSR proposed map. Ridiculous to not have that route, IMHO.

hsr_corridors_2009_LVweb.jpg
 
When Amtrak had the Texas Eagle split at Dallas, with one section going to Houston between 1988 and 1995, how was ridership on that segment? Why was it cut? It seems like this corridor by itself would have high ridership, connecting 2 of the largest metros in the country. Would this corridor justify several 79 mph Amtrak trains today?
There are two routes between Houston and Dallas. The fastest one is the old B-RI route which was 249 miles and at one time was covered in four hours flat. That route had service into the 60's. The other route was the T&NO(SP) route that was somewhat longer, 264 miles, but went through College Station, considered a major traffic generator. When the SP ran the Sunbeam on this route it covered the 264 miles in 264 minutes. Amtrak decided to split the Eagle at Dallas and run a section to Houston using the SP route because they had discontinued the Lone Star(former Texas Chief) which was a very popular train and followed it with a split of the Inter-American at Temple which they then discontinued after only a short time. Unfortunately, in the 30+ years since the SP route had seen passenger service the track conditions had deteriorate to the point that they would not accomodate passenger service. So Amtrak ponied up something like 6 million dollars for track and signal improvements so they could use the route. However, even that only accomodated a schedule of something like 6 hours Dallas to Houston. Not a very satisfactory timing. In spite of this ridership held up for the first few years. But, the SP did not continue to maintain the track at a sufficient level to accomodate the train and it often ran late. The track began to accumulate numerous slow orders. Ridership, which was never huge began to decline further and soon the train was chopped off. Even worse, Amtrak service on the Eagle continued to deteriorate also to the point that it was slated for discontinuance in it's entirety. In fact I believe it had sunk to a three times a week service. Only the efforts of the TEMPO organization saved it so that at least we still have the Eagle as it is now configured. As for service between Houston and Dallas, it is still possible as both route still exist but it would take a commitment from the TXDOT to ever get anything moving and that looks impossible for the forseable future considering the states current budget restraints. The only thing going on now is the possibility of bringing the Sunset Limited up to daily service from the current three times a week. Any kind of California or Illinois type corridor service in this state is way far into the future.

jf
Now that Texas supports the Heartland Flyer to an out-of-state destination, it would seem appropriate to extend it within state (after finding a second equipment set) down to Houston.

Is incremental service improvement in the Texas Triangle being held back by concentration on HSR?
 
Now that Texas supports the Heartland Flyer to an out-of-state destination, it would seem appropriate to extend it within state (after finding a second equipment set) down to Houston.
Is incremental service improvement in the Texas Triangle being held back by concentration on HSR?
Well in my opinion, it has been held back by a lack of central planning. Texas has a number of 'rail advocate' groups including HSR that all have different agendas. However, recently Texas has set up a passenger rail planning office at TXDOT to develop something like a central plan to do studies and apply for Federal money. What triggered this was Texas being mostly left out of the 8 billion in rail funds because it had no plans. So there is hope.
 
You know, I *know* that I've heard that the SC Corridor extension to Memphis was a done deal, but I can find no source for it--it shows up as under consideration (usually a dotted line) but nothing else.

That's really the next big thing, in my estimation, vis-a-vis passenger rail transportation in this country. The past year has really been a watershed for a lot of little things that bode well for the future. Namely, just about everyone has finally agreed that the way to reach parity with other first-world nations is to do so incrementally. The latest Trains Magazine contains a column that recognizes this fact, and the very same issue highlights Amtrak's incremental fleet plan.

The designation of the corridors was a good first step, but the SC Corridor was designated a decade ago, with the intervening years spent staring at a map and little else. TxDOT's creation of a Rail Division, as well as the aforementioned funding of the Heartland Flyer, shows that even our state is starting to get it. Will we be on the lists with the Californias, Floridas, and so on? Nah, not for a while. But the FRA slap in the face actually did light a fire under Texans, and I think it'll yield results down the line.

At any rate, my point is that now that the tide is shifting, focusing on the connections between the corridors should begin to happen.
 
You know, I *know* that I've heard that the SC Corridor extension to Memphis was a done deal, but I can find no source for it--it shows up as under consideration (usually a dotted line) but nothing else.
That's really the next big thing, in my estimation, vis-a-vis passenger rail transportation in this country. The past year has really been a watershed for a lot of little things that bode well for the future. Namely, just about everyone has finally agreed that the way to reach parity with other first-world nations is to do so incrementally. The latest Trains Magazine contains a column that recognizes this fact, and the very same issue highlights Amtrak's incremental fleet plan.

The designation of the corridors was a good first step, but the SC Corridor was designated a decade ago, with the intervening years spent staring at a map and little else. TxDOT's creation of a Rail Division, as well as the aforementioned funding of the Heartland Flyer, shows that even our state is starting to get it. Will we be on the lists with the Californias, Floridas, and so on? Nah, not for a while. But the FRA slap in the face actually did light a fire under Texans, and I think it'll yield results down the line.

At any rate, my point is that now that the tide is shifting, focusing on the connections between the corridors should begin to happen.
Blake, I know you have an interest in the north Texas area corridors, but in my opinion, outside of the usual Texas Triangle corridors, what is missing is a connection to Colorado along the old Texas Zephyr route. Colorado is the most popular travel destination for Texans both winter and summer. It's a natural.
 
Blake, I know you have an interest in the north Texas area corridors, but in my opinion, outside of the usual Texas Triangle corridors, what is missing is a connection to Colorado along the old Texas Zephyr route. Colorado is the most popular travel destination for Texans both winter and summer. It's a natural.
No, you're absolutely right. The caveat here is that my only real knowledge of this is through you and others on the board who hold this position, but based upon that I think that is probably the best starting point for expansion. The current Sunset and proposed stub train would serve to connect (albeit in a roundabout way) the SC and GC corridors, while there is nothing on the old Zephyr route.

Now's the time to lay the foundations.
 
Blake, I know you have an interest in the north Texas area corridors, but in my opinion, outside of the usual Texas Triangle corridors, what is missing is a connection to Colorado along the old Texas Zephyr route. Colorado is the most popular travel destination for Texans both winter and summer. It's a natural.
No, you're absolutely right. The caveat here is that my only real knowledge of this is through you and others on the board who hold this position, but based upon that I think that is probably the best starting point for expansion. The current Sunset and proposed stub train would serve to connect (albeit in a roundabout way) the SC and GC corridors, while there is nothing on the old Zephyr route.

Now's the time to lay the foundations.
Blake, here is another idea I put up under the Crescent Star string:

The best expansion idea for the Crescent is to send it west from New Orleans to Houston and San Antonio. I would be an overnight train between Houston and New Orleans and a day train between San Antonio and Houston. I would only take one more set of equipment to do that and the train already has viewliner sleepers on it. It would give San Antonio and Houston a direct train to Atlanta, the east coast, Washington, DC, Philladelphia and New York with connections to Boston. It would be more direct than the Eagle. And it would be a huge boost to ridership on the train west of Atlanta and Birmingham.

Since they are turning the Eagle into a Chi-Lax train this might be a good addition to routes serving Texas.
 
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