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Personality Test for Conductors and Engineers?


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#1 Trainmans daughter

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:38 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...rsonality-test/

#2 railiner

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:48 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...rsonality-test/

Brave New World? 1984? What's next, the "Thought Police"?
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#3 volkris

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:36 AM

http://www.foxnews.c...rsonality-test/

Brave New World? 1984? What's next, the "Thought Police"?


Nope. Next is an attempt at having the best suited train crews possible.

People are different, obviously, and personality testing can be a legitimate and useful way of determining how well suited a person is to his job.

That's not to say that THIS personality test or application is worthwhile--it might even be a negative--but people shouldn't run screaming from the idea, assuming it's a load of BS just short of mindcontrol.

#4 jmbgeg

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:44 AM

http://www.foxnews.c...rsonality-test/


The first question is whose employees they currently are and whose they will be as the new Amtrak contract commences. If the outgoing operator is terminating these workers and Amtrak is extending them conditional offers of employement as new Amtrak employees, arguably, Amtrak can establish qualifications for each position. The article indicates that they already require these tests of new hires for this classification of worker in its broader operations nationwide. If so, this provision should not be new to the unions. The only catch may be if the new contract requires Amtrak to hire these workers for these specific operations as a condition of the contract award. Then, collective bargaining rules may come in to play.

I am not a lawyer or well versed in union contracts and collective bargaining. Others may have a better informed opinion on whether Amtrak can impose these terms of employment in this specific scenario.
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#5 amtrakwolverine

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:52 AM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.
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#6 DowneasterPassenger

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:05 AM

Personality testing is neutral about saying whether a person is "good" or "bad." It simply determines whether a person has certain trains like extroversion and introversion and whether the person makes decisions primarily based on thinking or feeling.

Using this sort of testing to determine employee qualification is a form of discrimination. We have words for "racism" and "sexism" and "ageism" and there ought to be a similar word for "personalityism". It's another form of discrimination plain and simple.

#7 Guest_Tony_*

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:34 AM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.


Honestly, just how much interaction does the average Amtrak passenger have with their engineer?

#8 had8ley

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 07:10 AM

Having personally observed Amtrak, as well as other Class 1's officials, this is an obvious attempt to rate train crews without the necessary supervision that SHOULD be riding trains. It accomplishes nothing more than allowing the RR's, no matter who they may be, to not properly supervise by riding~ NOT a paper test. Rules are tested by paper; performance is tested by observation.

#9 amtrakwolverine

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 07:24 AM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.


Honestly, just how much interaction does the average Amtrak passenger have with their engineer?


none but it also reviews the C-O-N-D-U-C-T-O-R.
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#10 rrdude

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 08:57 AM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.



LOL, "THEE" single best post you have ever placed Wolverine. I'm still laffin'...................

If it wasn't so true, it'd be even funnier.

#11 jmbgeg

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 09:14 AM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.


Honestly, just how much interaction does the average Amtrak passenger have with their engineer?


I am sure that it is less than zero. My thought that the engineer would be singled out this way because of the critical interaction with the conductor and other on board crew.
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#12 oldtimer

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:18 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...rsonality-test/


The first question is whose employees they currently are and whose they will be as the new Amtrak contract commences. If the outgoing operator is terminating these workers and Amtrak is extending them conditional offers of employement as new Amtrak employees, arguably, Amtrak can establish qualifications for each position. The article indicates that they already require these tests of new hires for this classification of worker in its broader operations nationwide. If so, this provision should not be new to the unions. The only catch may be if the new contract requires Amtrak to hire these workers for these specific operations as a condition of the contract award. Then, collective bargaining rules may come in to play.

I am not a lawyer or well versed in union contracts and collective bargaining. Others may have a better informed opinion on whether Amtrak can impose these terms of employment in this specific scenario.


I personally think that you hit it on the head jmbgeg. I am well versed in union contracts and as this has been universally applied to employment candidates in the past, even qualified engineers from other railroads. Your logic seems to be right on baring any specific collective bargaining restrictions.

The Hogan test is used to determine personality traits, your reactions to things IE logic based or emotional based. The test is very easy to figure out as it basically asks the same question many times but it is reworded each time. If you answer the question the same way as in the past they think you are a logical person and a more desirable employee that one that is emotional. The logical person is more likely to follow rules and the emotional person is more likely to have a personal view point. This is not wrong it just may delay the reaction to a situation.

There are no right or wrong answers to this teat and it has nothing to do interactions with passengers. It has been given to Amtrak employee candidates for at least 18 years. Even some employees in the mechanical and passenger service departments have to take this test in order to be accepted into Amtrak employment!


:rolleyes: :unsure: :rolleyes:

edited for arthritic fingers

Edited by oldtimer2, 01 April 2010 - 02:22 PM.


#13 Ryan

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:22 PM

Personality testing is neutral about saying whether a person is "good" or "bad." It simply determines whether a person has certain trains like extroversion and introversion and whether the person makes decisions primarily based on thinking or feeling.

Using this sort of testing to determine employee qualification is a form of discrimination. We have words for "racism" and "sexism" and "ageism" and there ought to be a similar word for "personalityism". It's another form of discrimination plain and simple.

I can't tell if this is an April Fool's joke or not. That's only one step removed from saying that getting fired for doing your job poorly is really just a case of "unabletodomyjobism".
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#14 blueman271

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:58 PM

i would like this idea if it means no more rude employees who think that you just being on the train is ruining their lives.


Honestly, just how much interaction does the average Amtrak passenger have with their engineer?


I am sure that it is less than zero. My thought that the engineer would be singled out this way because of the critical interaction with the conductor and other on board crew.


The idea that people have to have similar personalities to interact is ludicrous. Interacting with people of differing personalities or people that you just do not like is part of any job and is what being a professional is all about. A conductor and engineer could hate each others guts, as long as they are both professionals the job will get done.

Just to add this disclaimer, I think this is an April Fool's joke.
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#15 ALC Rail Writer

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 08:20 PM

Faux News is a joke in general but I'd doubt that the article is fake

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#16 MikefromCrete

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 09:56 PM

Except for the fact that the story is dated March 31, I'd say this is an April Fool's joke.

#17 railiner

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:15 AM

Personality testing is neutral about saying whether a person is "good" or "bad." It simply determines whether a person has certain trains like extroversion and introversion and whether the person makes decisions primarily based on thinking or feeling.

Using this sort of testing to determine employee qualification is a form of discrimination. We have words for "racism" and "sexism" and "ageism" and there ought to be a similar word for "personalityism". It's another form of discrimination plain and simple.

If I'm not mistaken, several courts have actually banned certain testing of potential new hires, when it is deemed not having any real bearing on how a new hire may perform their position, but rather is used to covertly discriminate against certain demographic groups.
I'm not saying that this is the 'real' intention in this particular case, but such things have happenned recently in many different cases, most notably exams for firefighters.
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#18 RTOlson

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:50 AM

Although the link is to Fox News, the article is from the Associated Press. The AP itself appears to have taken the information from the Los Angeles Times (the link at the bottom of the story).

#19 Ryan

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 05:15 AM

Personality testing is neutral about saying whether a person is "good" or "bad." It simply determines whether a person has certain trains like extroversion and introversion and whether the person makes decisions primarily based on thinking or feeling.

Using this sort of testing to determine employee qualification is a form of discrimination. We have words for "racism" and "sexism" and "ageism" and there ought to be a similar word for "personalityism". It's another form of discrimination plain and simple.

If I'm not mistaken, several courts have actually banned certain testing of potential new hires, when it is deemed not having any real bearing on how a new hire may perform their position, but rather is used to covertly discriminate against certain demographic groups.
I'm not saying that this is the 'real' intention in this particular case, but such things have happenned recently in many different cases, most notably exams for firefighters.

That's a wild misinterpretation of the firefighters case. The test in question was a promotion exam, not for new hires and there isn't a ban on testing, but you need to ensure that there are no hidden biases in the test. In the firefighters case, there was a wide variation on how well different groups did on the test and the department took no steps to ensure that it wasn't just a statistical happenstance and not a biased exam.

To clarify my April Fool's comment, I was referring to the comment I was responding to, not the story as a whole. Many folks here with Amtrak experience say that the testing is standard, for the story to be completely made up.
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