A Texas to Colorado Train

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henryj

Conductor
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
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1,589
Location
Houston, Texas
This is my pet peave and the big hole in Amtrak's network for those of us down here in Texas. Up until the big train-offs in the late sixties we had excellent service with the Texas Zephyr running an overnight service between Dallas/Ft Worth and Denver serving Amarillo and Colorado Springs along the way. We had two trains a day between DFW and Houston and between SAS and DFW that connected. Colorado is the number one vacation destination for Texas both winter and summer. It's an obvious ready made market.
 
Well if the Rocky Mountain Rail Authority has its way, there will be 220mph rail service from Trinidad to Cheyenne by 2022. Then New Mexico has expressed interest in a rail link from El Paso to Trinidad via Railrunner. El Paso-Cheyenne could happen, but its a distance away. The website for RMRA is: Colorado High Speed Rail The site is hard to navigate but the formal study which i summarized here (5.8 billion $, finished by 2022) is to be released this month. The reason we don't have train service now is the existing line from Pueblo to Denver is really congested with coal trains.
 
cry me a river, atlanta only has two trains a day.
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
Try the service gaps in Ohio, or South Dakota...
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Well, Ohio I can understand the service gaps there need fixing. South Dakota just doesn't have the population to justify dedicated service, hence the service gap there. I think Colorado is the worst service gap in the western system and a train from Texas to Denver will get lots of riders. Thats why I like what RMRA is doing (see post above).
 
henryj said:
This is my pet peave and the big hole in Amtrak's network for those of us down here in Texas. Up until the big train-offs in the late sixties we had excellent service with the Texas Zephyr running an overnight service between Dallas/Ft Worth and Denver serving Amarillo and Colorado Springs along the way. We had two trains a day between DFW and Houston and between SAS and DFW that connected. Colorado is the number one vacation destination for Texas both winter and summer. It's an obvious ready made market.
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Few years back there was a serious push for a Caprock Express.

Txarp Site
 
If Amtrak had been started 10 years earlier on May 1, 1961 instead of 1971, we would have a lot fewer gaps in service. There were also many more passengers riding trains 10 years earlier. In the early 60s, many trains carried Railroad Post Office cars which made a profit, even if the train lost money on passengers. With the wholesale discontinuance of RPOs in the mid 60s came train off petitions to the ICC because Railroads could justify discontinuances because of balance sheets that showed red ink for the passenger trains. In the late 1960s, Penn Central petitioned to discontinue all passenger service west of Buffalo and Harrisburg. By 1970s, the politicians finally woke up to the fact that they had problem. Amtrak was formed to continue passenger service a few more years, but the ultimate plan was to discontinue all passenger trains with the exception of a few corridors such as the NEC. Fortunately, rail passenger advocates have kept the skelatal nationwide Amtrak system going, but it will take significant amounts of investments to bring back the great passenger system that US once had.
 
One thing that will prevent this is the route is heavy with coal trains.
 
Not that this is optimal, but there's continuing discussion about extending the Hearland Flyer to Kansas City. If that happened, at least you could hit the SWC from your location. Or go west on the SWC and then the connecting bus from Raton?
 
Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?
 
I see the string of towns Denver south and I see a huge $$ (okay maybe half-a-$, but still). It should definatly be served, if not by a N-S Train w/ connections to either the CZ or SWC. At least the local gov't should invest some cash into a tourist-y commuter type train to connect to both the CZ and SWC to expand the ease of travel in that area, and to bump up potential for ski traffic in the area. (Cities such as Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, etc.). Not to mention some of the great destinations to the NW of DEN.
 
Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.
 
I am all for either a Houston or New Orleans originating train that traverses Dallas / Denver/ Pacific Northwest.

It is a huge gap....and one that needs fixing. But if we keep spending ourselves further into a hole, we probably wont' be worrying about train service...more like what are we going to eat?
 
birdy said:
Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.
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Well Phoenix and Salt Lake City are pretty isolated, not many people want to pay to see the desertso flhying there might be better but Denver has THE scenery, hence the CZ is very popular!(not to men tion

the EB which goes nowhere near a big city between Seattle and the Twin Cities!!Lots of folks use the

train since there are no airports nor even roads in some cases to get to the city!You could look it up

as Casey Stengel ised to say!@ :) :lol:
 
birdy said:
Colorado just is too isolated, I think. If you look at a map, its the most isolated of our big cities. Its very easy to fly into their nice new airport, and that is what most people do. I just don't see slow speed LD trains having a significant future anywhere.
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They are popular as a tourist attraction mostly. Similar to cruise ships. It's a land cruise and that's how Amtrak has to approach it. They also provide basic transportation to many isolated small towns along the routes. Are they totally essential to the US transportation system? Probably not. However, as gasoline prices continue to escalate they may become more attractive verses flying or driving. But to really excel they need to become more punctual with improved scheduling. The schedules have become too padded and the freight railroads treat them like step children.
 
wrjensen said:
Were they looking at a train to run from ABQ (and points South) to Denver? Or did I just dream that.
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Colorado is looking at service down the 'front range' along I25 to serve Denver to Colorado Springs, Pueblo and Walsenberg. New Mexico already has the railrunner coming the other way from ABQ as far as Santa Fe. The long term plan is to someday go the whole distance. They are also looking at service from El Paso north to Denver. The Texas Assoc of Rail Passengers(TXARP) came up with this boondoggle called the Caproc Express that wandered all about the state to serve Lubbock, Amarillo, then connecting with the SWC at La Junta and finally running up the front range to Denver. Timing was almost 24 hours to go 900 miles often on unsignalled freight only track north of Lubbock whereas the old Texas Zephyr route up the BNSF from Fort Worth through Amarillo was only 800 miles and took only 18 hours. Problem with both these routes is they have to go up the front range which is plugged with coal trains. As it stands now the trains would never run on time and the service would be unreliable. The BNSF in a short sighted economy move years ago single tracked the line south of Palmer Lake before the coal business became what it is today and created a huge bottle neck that is still unsolved to this day. There have been plans circulated to reroute these coal trains east of Denver away from the Palmer Lake joint line, but nothing has come of it. It takes $$$$$ and so far no one thinks it is a priority.
 
henryj said:
wrjensen said:
Were they looking at a train to run from ABQ (and points South) to Denver? Or did I just dream that.
Click to expand...
Colorado is looking at service down the 'front range' along I25 to serve Denver to Colorado Springs, Pueblo and Walsenberg. New Mexico already has the railrunner coming the other way from ABQ as far as Santa Fe. The long term plan is to someday go the whole distance. They are also looking at service from El Paso north to Denver. The Texas Assoc of Rail Passengers(TXARP) came up with this boondoggle called the Caproc Express that wandered all about the state to serve Lubbock, Amarillo, then connecting with the SWC at La Junta and finally running up the front range to Denver. Timing was almost 24 hours to go 900 miles often on unsignalled freight only track north of Lubbock whereas the old Texas Zephyr route up the BNSF from Fort Worth through Amarillo was only 800 miles and took only 18 hours. Problem with both these routes is they have to go up the front range which is plugged with coal trains. As it stands now the trains would never run on time and the service would be unreliable. The BNSF in a short sighted economy move years ago single tracked the line south of Palmer Lake before the coal business became what it is today and created a huge bottle neck that is still unsolved to this day. There have been plans circulated to reroute these coal trains east of Denver away from the Palmer Lake joint line, but nothing has come of it. It takes $$$$$ and so far no one thinks it is a priority.
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I thought the Caprock Express was a waste. It seem to be to political based. A train to hit every city on Texas and it could never compete with Southwest Airlines. If you ever drive from Lubbock to Amarillo the 100 ish miles can be done in 90 min no problem (It can be done in it in about a hour if you have a lead foot) and the plainview sub is not that fast BNSF for a while (I do not know is the still to do but was runing north on the boise city sub and south on the Dahart sub). This does not means train go the the out way but a Amtrak train would be backflowing in one direction. If you wanted to do trains in west texas the TZ from DFW to Denver, a train from DFW to El Paso and maybe a train from Houston to ABQ.
 
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Green Maned Lion said:
Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?
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FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it. Unless we're counting tourist trains, which I don't think we should. It also used to have the tail end of the Pioneer route when that left from Denver and crossed Wyoming, but that's more of an honorary mention since it only stopped in Denver and Greeley.
 
MikeM said:
Green Maned Lion said:
Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?
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FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it. Unless we're counting tourist trains, which I don't think we should. It also used to have the tail end of the Pioneer route when that left from Denver and crossed Wyoming, but that's more of an honorary mention since it only stopped in Denver and Greeley.
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Southwest Chief.
 
MikeM said:
Green Maned Lion said:
Colorado, last time I checked, is served by 4 trains daily. Why is this a service gap compared to various other states I could mention?
Click to expand...
FOUR trains???? The California Zephyr serves the state, and that's it. Unless we're counting tourist trains, which I don't think we should. It also used to have the tail end of the Pioneer route when that left from Denver and crossed Wyoming, but that's more of an honorary mention since it only stopped in Denver and Greeley.
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Last time I checked, the Southwest Chief serves Lamar, La Junta, and Trinidad.
 
wrjensen said:
If you wanted to do trains in west texas the TZ from DFW to Denver, a train from DFW to El Paso and maybe a train from Houston to ABQ.
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The last train you mention, Houston to ABQ was run by the Santa Fe up until everything fell apart in the late 60's. It was called the California Special and ran overnight between Houston and Lubbock both ways and then continued on to Clovis where it exchanged cars with the San Francisco Chief and the Chief for ABQ(via Belen) and California. A lot ot TT students used the service from Houston to Lubbock. The T&P of course ran the Eagle and another train out to El Paso from DFW. You could reroute the Eagle out that way again someday perhaps but right now we are doing good just to get daily service out of the Eagle/Sunset proposal as it stands.
 
attn henry I: did you happen to see my post about resuming the old Eagle stub train from DFW to

Hoouston, as you know currently pax have to catch a bus in East Texas off the TE for Houston,

with the millions of folks in both areas it should be a hit,maybe just a cafe car and a coach to start,

perhaps BC if a good schedule (daily/on time/return)could be worked out!
 
jimhudson said:
attn henry I: did you happen to see my post about resuming the old Eagle stub train from DFW toHoouston, as you know currently pax have to catch a bus in East Texas off the TE for Houston,

with the millions of folks in both areas it should be a hit,maybe just a cafe car and a coach to start,

perhaps BC if a good schedule (daily/on time/return)could be worked out!
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I think the only hope for DFW-Houston rail service is high speed rail.

The old TE took 6 hours to get between the two.
 
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