Suicide by Train

Caltrain - the San Francisco to San Jose commuter service - has had two fatalities, one yesterday, one today both apparent suicides. Publicity has been fairly minimal, which I consider a very good idea so as not to encourage copycats. The two do not appear to be related, even though they occurred within a couple miles of each other. Yesterday's was about 4 miles south of Palo Alto station and today's about 2 miles south of PA. Today's occurred late in the morning rush hour period.

Last year I hear a couple conductors discussing the plan to put a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate bridge. The essence was, Oh no. Now they will come down here and jump in front of trains. It is their nightmare. It is the conductor, not the engineer, and not the EMS or law enforcement people that first go back and look and find the body or pieces thereof. Absolutely one of their worst nightmares.

George Harris said:

Caltrain - the San Francisco to San Jose commuter service - has had two fatalities, one yesterday, one today both apparent suicides. Publicity has been fairly minimal, which I consider a very good idea so as not to encourage copycats. The two do not appear to be related, even though they occurred within a couple miles of each other. Yesterday's was about 4 miles south of Palo Alto station and today's about 2 miles south of PA. Today's occurred late in the morning rush hour period.
Last year I hear a couple conductors discussing the plan to put a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate bridge. The essence was, Oh no. Now they will come down here and jump in front of trains. It is their nightmare. It is the conductor, not the engineer, and not the EMS or law enforcement people that first go back and look and find the body or pieces thereof. Absolutely one of their worst nightmares.

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It is right up there with suicide by cop. Depends on what one's preference is: train or bullet.

You're lucky, if there are only 2 suicides "by train" a day in such a large country. In Europe we have at least a few dozen of these a day.

Here you wouldn't get any publicity, just because it's too normal.

But at least the european railways are prepared and offer usually psychological help to the enigneer.

Does Caltrain offer that too?

Sam31452 said:

You're lucky, if there are only 2 suicides "by train" a day in such a large country. In Europe we have at least a few dozen of these a day.Here you wouldn't get any publicity, just because it's too normal.

But at least the european railways are prepared and offer usually psychological help to the enigneer.

Does Caltrain offer that too?

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I know Amtrak crews get time off and yes some kind of aide is offered to engineers and the crew IIRC.

George Harris said:

Last year I hear a couple conductors discussing the plan to put a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate bridge. The essence was, Oh no. Now they will come down here and jump in front of trains. It is their nightmare. It is the conductor, not the engineer, and not the EMS or law enforcement people that first go back and look and find the body or pieces thereof. Absolutely one of their worst nightmares.

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There is a part of barrier- no pedistrains allowed at night on Golden Gate bridge.

GoldenSpike said:

It is right up there with suicide by cop. Depends on what one's preference is: train or bullet.

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Too bad we don't have "bullet trains". Then you could get a 2-for-1 special! :blink:

Suicide by cop is not the more popular method because the Police usually recognize this and have methods to try and figure it out. That, and bullets can be aimed. With trains... well, the Engineer has no way of stopping anything.

At least with the Bridge-- no third party can emotionally think they are at fault or blame themselves.

Those who choose suicide by cop or by train typically cannot muster the courage (for lack of a better term) to actually take their own lives... technically, they get somebody else to kill them.

Can't muster courage to take their own lives?

For many, they don't have the means to reliably take their own lives. There are many stories of people slitting wrists or taking pills, but not dying. Most teens in the city don't have guns at their disposal. Even intentionally crashing their own car may not kill them. I think some find the train as being a way that they are sure to die.

I think that stepping in front of a moving train does take courage. I wish that they had even more courage -- the courage to live and find ways to make life work for them.

Courage probably has little to do with it either way.

From a website about depression;

Mortality/Morbidity
* The morbidity of the depression is difficult to quantify. The lethality of depression, however, is measurable and is the result of completed suicide, which is the ninth leading reported cause of death in the United States.

* In 2005, 1.4% of all deaths worldwide were attributed to suicide. The real number is unknown since underreporting is predictably significant. Suicide is estimated to be the eighth leading cause of death in all age ranges.

* Almost all people who kill themselves intentionally have a diagnosable mental disorder with or without substance abuse, which in itself, is often a result of attempted self-treatment for the symptoms of depression. Approximately two thirds of individuals who complete suicide have seen a physician within a month of their death.

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A couple of days ago, another teenager committed suicide by CalTrain. She attended the same high school as one of the deaths last month reported by George. Last night another student tried it at the same place but his mother was concerned, followed him, and prevented (with help from a bystander and dispatch) his death. This was during a community meeting regarding suicide prevention that was scheduled after the first death.

Mercury News article here.

[

Mortality/Morbidity
* In 2005, 1.4% of all deaths worldwide were attributed to suicide. The real number is unknown since underreporting is predictably significant. Suicide is estimated to be the eighth leading cause of death in all age ranges.

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This statement is very true. I have known two people that committed suicide. One of them has accidental gunshot wound on their death certificate.

Suicide is more acceptable in some societies than others, which may affect both the numbers and the reporting. Somebody can correct me if I am worng, but I once heard that in Japan if a person kills their immediate family and then themselves, is is classified as a "family suicide" rather than as murders and a suicide as it would be in the US.

Once in Germany I had to help the tech's in the morgue at Landstuhl move the body of someone who had jumped in front of a train going 80 mph. I won't go into details but it was really bad.

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas? I mean, yes, it is, perhaps, the most selfish thing a person can do. But honestly, I'd rather they stop trying to put barriers to simple one-person-involved suicides like jumping off the 'Gate. Wouldn't you rather Johnny T. Emo throw himself off the bridge into the water so that someone who has done it many times- and is thus somewhat dead to it - can pluck his body out of the water, then to have him using methods like suicide by train, mentally disturbing innocent train crew and inconveniencing commuters?

Or worse, suicide-by-truck driving his car into a 18-wheeler, and possibly taking someone else with him.

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas? I mean, yes, it is, perhaps, the most selfish thing a person can do. But honestly, I'd rather they stop trying to put barriers to simple one-person-involved suicides like jumping off the 'Gate. Wouldn't you rather Johnny T. Emo throw himself off the bridge into the water so that someone who has done it many times- and is thus somewhat dead to it - can pluck his body out of the water, then to have him using methods like suicide by train, mentally disturbing innocent train crew and inconveniencing commuters?
Or worse, suicide-by-truck driving his car into a 18-wheeler, and possibly taking someone else with him.

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Of course none at all would be better, but if it is going to happen, I agree with you.

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas?

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Because it ruins my day. I have worked on railway depots for 29 years this year and have seen more meat than the butchers slab.

Come and pick bits of human off the front and underneath of a train and then see if you are still thinking that suicide is an ok thing to do. Bet you will change your mind.

I detest with a passion the sad and tortured people that throw themselves in front of a train, maybe some might think that cruel and uncaring, but in all honesty I would pay for several bottles of pills and a few bottle of whiskey and they can go and ruin someone elses day.

Suicide is like sexual preference and religion, do what the hell you like , but don't even think of bothering me with it.

Neil_M said:

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas?

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Because it ruins my day. I have worked on railway depots for 29 years this year and have seen more meat than the butchers slab.

Come and pick bits of human off the front and underneath of a train and then see if you are still thinking that suicide is an ok thing to do. Bet you will change your mind.

I detest with a passion the sad and tortured people that throw themselves in front of a train, maybe some might think that cruel and uncaring, but in all honesty I would pay for several bottles of pills and a few bottle of whiskey and they can go and ruin someone elses day.

Suicide is like sexual preference and religion, do what the hell you like , but don't even think of bothering me with it.

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... Isn't that what I just said?

For whatever reason CalTrain draws a disproportionately high number of suicides. I remember KCBS doing a story about it a few years ago.

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas? I mean, yes, it is, perhaps, the most selfish thing a person can do. But honestly, I'd rather they stop trying to put barriers to simple one-person-involved suicides like jumping off the 'Gate. Wouldn't you rather Johnny T. Emo throw himself off the bridge into the water so that someone who has done it many times- and is thus somewhat dead to it - can pluck his body out of the water, then to have him using methods like suicide by train, mentally disturbing innocent train crew and inconveniencing commuters?
Or worse, suicide-by-truck driving his car into a 18-wheeler, and possibly taking someone else with him.

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The reason why they ought to put barriers on the Golden Gate Bridge is because people who kill themselves often do so impulsively. Remove the method of suicide, reduce the chance of suicide. Apparently the classic example is the replacement of coal gas with natural gas in Great Britain. Lacking the classic suicide method of sticking one's head in the oven (coal gas is much higher in carbon monoxide than natural gas), the suicide rate declined significantly. This article suggests the story is more complicated, but the general trend remains. Sadly, trains are another impulse-suicide magnet, and I can't imagine how to fix that problem. Too many grade crossings.

I don't often comment on style, but this post seems a bit crass. Referring to a mentally ill person as "Johnny T. Emo" and lumping together as equivalent the trauma to train crew and the inconvenience of passengers seems to me to be intentionally offensive. Unless you have dealt personally with the aftermath of suicide, more empathy might be in order here.

Sam31452 said:

You're lucky, if there are only 2 suicides "by train" a day in such a large country. In Europe we have at least a few dozen of these a day.Here you wouldn't get any publicity, just because it's too normal.

But at least the european railways are prepared and offer usually psychological help to the enigneer.

Does Caltrain offer that too?

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I think that's pretty universal among American railroads, too.

jackal said:

Sam31452 said:

But at least the european railways are prepared and offer usually psychological help to the enigneer.Does Caltrain offer that too?

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I think that's pretty universal among American railroads, too.

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Absolutely yes.

There are also signs posted at fairly frequent intervals along the Caltrain line with the anti-suicide help line number on them, along with some other words saying to the effect, "help is available"

Green Maned Lion said:

Neil_M said:

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas?

Click to expand...

Because it ruins my day. I have worked on railway depots for 29 years this year and have seen more meat than the butchers slab.

Come and pick bits of human off the front and underneath of a train and then see if you are still thinking that suicide is an ok thing to do. Bet you will change your mind.

I detest with a passion the sad and tortured people that throw themselves in front of a train, maybe some might think that cruel and uncaring, but in all honesty I would pay for several bottles of pills and a few bottle of whiskey and they can go and ruin someone elses day.

Suicide is like sexual preference and religion, do what the hell you like , but don't even think of bothering me with it.

Click to expand...

... Isn't that what I just said?

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Not really. As usual I think it's talk over experience.

Neil_M said:

Green Maned Lion said:

Neil_M said:

Green Maned Lion said:

I know I am going to get flamed, but why is the inherrent act of committing suicide such a faux pas?

Click to expand...

Because it ruins my day. I have worked on railway depots for 29 years this year and have seen more meat than the butchers slab.

Come and pick bits of human off the front and underneath of a train and then see if you are still thinking that suicide is an ok thing to do. Bet you will change your mind.

I detest with a passion the sad and tortured people that throw themselves in front of a train, maybe some might think that cruel and uncaring, but in all honesty I would pay for several bottles of pills and a few bottle of whiskey and they can go and ruin someone elses day.

Suicide is like sexual preference and religion, do what the hell you like , but don't even think of bothering me with it.

Click to expand...

... Isn't that what I just said?

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Not really. As usual I think it's talk over experience.

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Neil, I don't know what you are reading into what the GML said, but as he says, I thought what you said was almost identical in concept to what he said. OK, you may have had first hand experiences he has missed, and some are well worth missing. Geting shot at is one that comes to mind, but still it appears that he said generally what you have expressed more specifically. Maybe this is a case of the English and the Americans being divided by a common language?

Ispolkom said:

I don't often comment on style, but this post seems a bit crass. Referring to a mentally ill person as "Johnny T. Emo" and lumping together as equivalent the trauma to train crew and the inconvenience of passengers seems to me to be intentionally offensive. Unless you have dealt personally with the aftermath of suicide, more empathy might be in order here.

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Why do you presume to know how much experience I have with suicides? Having even myself contemplated it at one point in my life, I have some understanding of the mechanics that lead to it. I also know what stopped me, and thus, what must be missing in people who do it's mental facilities. What stopped me was realizing that inflicting the pain and suffering I would bring upon my family- I had no friends - was not worth putting myself out of my own misery at the time.

If some person can't recognize what they are doing, besides ending their own pain, frankly, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. Better off dead, all other things being equal. I deeply sympathize with their loved ones. I deeply sympathize with the innocent bystanders traumatized by their act of complete and total selfishness. But the so-called "suicide victim"? Not at all. They aren't the victim- they are the perpetrator.

Green Maned Lion said:

If some person can't recognize what they are doing, besides ending their own pain, frankly, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. Better off dead, all other things being equal. I deeply sympathize with their loved ones. I deeply sympathize with the innocent bystanders traumatized by their act of complete and total selfishness. But the so-called "suicide victim"? Not at all. They aren't the victim- they are the perpetrator.

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Aloha

On this subject, I would prefer not to agree with GML, but he is correct. Suicide is a cowards decision, the Victim's are those left behind. I Pray that no one has to deal with this, But, So I also pray for the survivors support.

I refer back to my post earlier in this thread;

Almost all people who kill themselves intentionally have a diagnosable mental disorder with or without substance abuse, which in itself, is often a result of attempted self-treatment for the symptoms of depression. Approximately two thirds of individuals who complete suicide have seen a physician within a month of their death.

Click to expand...

Nothing to do with cowardice, or courage.