An Open Letter to All Railfans

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Spokker

Lead Service Attendant
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I post this here because it is the most active forum here. I am calling on all people who enjoy trains, whether you enjoy riding them, photographing them, or just looking at them, to join me in speaking out against the behavior displayed by the teenage railfans in connection with the Metrolink Chatsworth wreck.

In case you don't know, transcripts of text messages that the Metrolink engineer involved in the crash sent to teenage railfans have been released. They are abhorrent, and actually scare the pants off of me.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/arti.../n143746S07.DTL

Sanchez: I'm REALLY looking forward to getting you in the cab and showing you how to run a locomotive
Teen: (Oh my god) dude me too. Running a locomotive. Having all of that in the palms of my hands. Its a great feeling. And ill do it so good from all my practice on the simulator.
I am a commuter first, a Metrolink passenger first, and a train enthusiast second. Myself and thousands of other commuters just want to get to work or other destinations as quickly as possible. The behavior displayed by Sanchez was grossly irresponsible, but anyone who loves trains should understand to NOT RIDE ALONG IN A LOCOMOTIVE CAB EVEN IF OFFERED THE OPPORTUNITY.

Real people working real jobs are just trying to get to work or go home. Southern California's rail network is not a giant toy train set. It's a real, working railroad that helps people be productive.

I really hope that this is an isolated incident, but I can't help but be afraid that this is happening in corners of the country here and there. You always wonder how deep the problem goes, but you never know.

I was astonished about the text messaging allegations, and now I'm just mortified. I really don't know what else to say.
 
That's very scarey. Many cities have laws against using cell phones while driving cars. That law should be universally applied to any moving vehicle.

I would assume there are company rules against allowing passengers in the cab of a locomotive?
 
That's very scarey. Many cities have laws against using cell phones while driving cars. That law should be universally applied to any moving vehicle.
I would assume there are company rules against allowing passengers in the cab of a locomotive?
alot of engineers let railfans ride in the cab but its mostly commuter rails. the reason this guy creates so much controversy is that hes gay. one time when i was little and don't think i remember it but it was on via rail canada and the engineer let me see inside the cab while the train was parked.
 
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it has nothing to do with drving the train. parents are upset that he was texting teens. one parent said the only 40 YO allowed to text my son is me.
 
I don't think the issue is being gay, but the fact that this engineer was texting while operating the train, and that his actions led to the derailment.

Now the fact that he was texting a male teenage railfan with the offer to operate the train . . . leads to the thought of why he is doing this. The quote of the phone texting conversation does not feel or look right.

I was the beneficiary of a visit to the cab of a locomotive a couple of times up and Canada, and once even got an illegal cab ride. I did not ask for the cab ride, would never even dream that it was a possibility. Once up there, I kept my mouth shut and observed. I talked with the crew some but I was very careful not to distract them, and I let them set the level of interaction.

I think as a community railans for the most part are responsible and respect the property and employees of the railroads. We should encourage others to do the same if we see something that is not right.
 
That's very scarey. Many cities have laws against using cell phones while driving cars. That law should be universally applied to any moving vehicle.
I would assume there are company rules against allowing passengers in the cab of a locomotive?
alot of engineers let railfans ride in the cab but its mostly commuter rails. the reason this guy creates so much controversy is that hes gay.
No, the reason this man is creating so much controversy is because he smashed into a freight train and killed a bunch of people.

one time when i was little and don't think i remember it but it was on via rail canada and the engineer let me see inside the cab while the train was parked.
There's a huge difference between going into a locomotive while it's parked, and being in one while it's moving. There are many events where people can look at the cab of a locomotive while it's stopped. Except for very special occasions, there really aren't any legitimate opportunities for a non-employee to get into one while it's moving.

Likewise, many pilots let visitors (usually kids) into the cockpit of a plane while it's parked at the gate. Just try getting into one while the plane is in the air. (On second thought, don't try it.)

All that said, it's human nature for people, especially younger folks, to be curious about how things work. People will always want some sort of behind-the-scenes look at stuff. And there will always be people out there willing to take the risks associated with bringing these folks "behind the scenes."

What's needed is common sense. Given that there are already rules/laws in place forbidding stuff like this, it obviously doesn't deter everybody from doing it. Just like the teen that got a Metra engineer fired in Chicago because he either blogged or posted photos of his cab ride (and named the engineer who let him in) said, he wasn't the first, and he won't be the last. Incidents like this make others much more vigilant, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of an engineer inviting someone into the cab.

So, to close out my note here, while I understand everyone's concern about safety, I don't see what good it would do to beg all railfans to turn down cab rides. Ultimately, it is the engineer who decides whether or not to offer such a ride, and the engineer who has to operate the train, with or without someone up there next to him. Heck, if it becomes a matter of either having an extra person (and an extra set of eyes) in the cab or the engineer looking at his phone sending text messages, maybe having someone else in the cab with their eyes out the window is better. Not that one should be forced to choose between an unauthorized visitor or an inattentive engineer, but here on Earth, in this life, we don't always get an ideal set of choices. If we did, then two trains probably wouldn't have collided in Southern California last year.
 
the reason this guy creates so much controversy is that hes gay.
Are gay people not allowed to drive trains in America then?

No, but conservative America hates gays. Hello Proposition 8 #8. The single, most disgusting and vile issue on Nov 5th of 2008.

It's just a way of saying 'hey this is why Gays are bad they crash trains' because you know a straight person has never, ever done that before.

and no I am not a lesbian or gay. Just believe in the word equal rights.
 
Is there some reason why having a non-railroad-employee in the cab of a locomotive is more dangerous than a passenger on a city bus talking with the driver?
Not especially. It helps if you are aware of when the driver needs to concentrate but I think its just part of the risk adverse society we live in. Even having 2 railroad employees could be deemed dangerous, as in my 29 years of working on the railway if you put 2 drivers or other traincrew together they spent most of the time moaning about the job.

Certain railways in Germany and Switzerland actually offer cab rides for cash. Can't be that unsafe although I do think you are accompanied by someone. How much would you pay to ride upfront on an Acela or across the Rockies on the CZ?

Thing is, if the rule book says no "normals" in the cab , then right or wrong, thats what you have to go by.
 
Wethinks:

It is against the operating rules, maybe even FRA regulations, to use a cellphone in the cab unless authorized to do so by the dispatcher. and even worse to text.

While a lifelong (66 years) railfan and photographer, we would give our eyeball teeth to get inside of a locomotive again, Happened once as a kid, with the locomotive parked, if we thought for ome moment that it would distract the crew from doing their jobs, we would forego the thought.

Crews realize that allowing a non-employee into the cab is against company rules and reprimands or termination are possible - we're sure the same holds true for commuter service.

The 40-to-teen and gay thing is another issue which wethinks does not belong on this group.

We looked it up on the generic GCOR see: http://www.trainweb.com/gcor/toc.html

which all railroads adhere to.

Section 1.3 -1.10 relates to use of electronic devices - employees on duty must not use unless related to their duty.

Section 1.3 - 1.22 relates to unauthorized persons - Unauthorized persons must not be permitted on equipment.
 
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If it was not against the rules, I would not see the problem with having pax in the cab - if the engineer was right there, I would even let them operate the controls (subject to the engineer's discretion). HOWEVER, it is against the rules so it SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!
 
the reason this guy creates so much controversy is that hes gay.
Are gay people not allowed to drive trains in America then?
No, but conservative America hates gays. Hello Proposition 8 #8. The single, most disgusting and vile issue on Nov 5th of 2008.

It's just a way of saying 'hey this is why Gays are bad they crash trains' because you know a straight person has never, ever done that before.

and no I am not a lesbian or gay. Just believe in the word equal rights.
Mercedeslove, you are introducing something totally extraneous to the subject.
 
it has nothing to do with drving the train. parents are upset that he was texting teens. one parent said the only 40 YO allowed to text my son is me.
It has nothing to do with homosexuality. If a 40-year-old man was texting my teenage daughter, that would be cause for alarm as well.
But that's another issue entirely. No engineer should be sending hundreds of text messages while operating a train, to anyone. Use the cell phone in an emergency when normal lines of communication have broken down. Otherwise, wait until break time. This is what I do and I don't even operate heavy machinery.
 
Two things:

1) Rules prohibiting personal cellphone use while on duty - pretty much standard now - to put all employees on notice.

2) AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY on all cab doors - puts the responsibility on all non-employees to know they could be prosecuted for trespassing..
 
I've been the beneficiary of two "illegal" cab rides--once on the Alaska Railroad (during a wintertime passenger run before I worked for them) and once for about (and I know most of you would give your right arm for this chance :p ) an hour on Acela coming into NYC from the north (see here for pictures)--and neither one was at all anywhere near dangerous or distracting to the engineer.

I've also been the beneficiary of countless legal cab rides as a brakeman on the Alaska Railroad. (Never got old. ;) ) On one of these runs on a 30-odd-car loaded coal train (short and heavy--one of the hardest kinds to run through undulating territory), an engineer let me run the train (operate the controls) for about 45 minutes coming into Fairbanks. I did a dang good job, if I may say so myself, though I was very closely guided by the engineer. (He justified it by saying that eventually I would become a hostler and then student engineer, so there was no sense in not starting me nice and early with proper training!)

All of these opportunities were very closely guided by people with the utmost care and concern for everyone's safety. Therefore, I am not willing to make a blanket statement that people who enjoy trains should never be allowed to see the inside of the cab or otherwise indulge in their hobby in a safe manner.

However, the alleged behavior exhibited by the engineer involved in this Metrolink incident does seem to indicate a lack of responsibility, and while as a young railfan, I would have very much wanted to know someone like the engineer (assuming nothing inappropriate ever happened between the kids and him) who would have let me into the cab and touch the controls, there may be a need to put procedures into place to ensure such irresponsible behavior is not tolerated on the railroad.

Let me reiterate: it is possible to responsibly allow train enthusiasts to enjoy their hobby while at the same time being completely irresponsible while being alone (or having a second railroad worker) in the cab. The action of having a railfan in the cab in and of itself is not irresponsible: the root is deeper, and an effort must be made to not allow people who would perpetuate irresponsible actions (like texting while running a train) into such sensitive positions.

Interesting comparison: being an aircraft pilot is viewed as a respectable, professional position. Such people are actually referred to as "professional pilots." Professional behavior includes remaining focused on the job and not allowing distractions to compromise safety. On the other hand, working on the railroad is typically viewed as blue-collar work without an accompanying code of professionalism. Pilots have a culture of promoting operating as safely as they can, whereas railroad workers have a culture of skirting the edge of the rules to get the work done as quickly as possible without compromising too much safety. I'm not sure what can be done to change this perception and culture, but that may be one way to consider going about it.

On that note, it actually isn't impossible to visit the cockpit of an aircraft while in flight. In 1999, I visited the flight deck of a British Airways 747-400 midway over the Atlantic for a good 15 minutes with a cadre of children (I was the oldest). 9/11 mostly put the kibosh on that for "security"--not safety--reasons, but when properly supervised and with responsible people in control, there has never been any problem with allowing visitors up front (and indeed it can still be done in places where rules are more lax than in the U.S. and Western Europe).
 
Interesting comparison: being an aircraft pilot is viewed as a respectable, professional position. Such people are actually referred to as "professional pilots." Professional behavior includes remaining focused on the job and not allowing distractions to compromise safety. On the other hand, working on the railroad is typically viewed as blue-collar work without an accompanying code of professionalism. Pilots have a culture of promoting operating as safely as they can, whereas railroad workers have a culture of skirting the edge of the rules to get the work done as quickly as possible without compromising too much safety. I'm not sure what can be done to change this perception and culture, but that may be one way to consider going about it.
I'd somehow been under the impression that pilots sometimes do push the limits of marginal weather a bit. We probably could reduce the number of icing-related deaths a bit if we were willing to cancel or significantly delay a lot of flights.

I think the air ambulance safety track record has also been a subject of some conccern recently.
 
1) Rules prohibiting personal cellphone use while on duty - pretty much standard now - to put all employees on notice.
I'd love to have such rules apply for bustituted Amtrak service, too. They clearly didn't on the #448 bus I rode in May 2008, and there was an Amtrak conductor sitting in the front row on the right hand side of the bus who could have carried out any cell phone communication that might have been necessary to conduct business.
 
Aloha

Jackal Mahalo for saying that correctly you make very good on the responsibility part that seems so forgotten today.
 
Interesting comparison: being an aircraft pilot is viewed as a respectable, professional position. Such people are actually referred to as "professional pilots." Professional behavior includes remaining focused on the job and not allowing distractions to compromise safety. On the other hand, working on the railroad is typically viewed as blue-collar work without an accompanying code of professionalism. Pilots have a culture of promoting operating as safely as they can, whereas railroad workers have a culture of skirting the edge of the rules to get the work done as quickly as possible without compromising too much safety. I'm not sure what can be done to change this perception and culture, but that may be one way to consider going about it.
I'd somehow been under the impression that pilots sometimes do push the limits of marginal weather a bit. We probably could reduce the number of icing-related deaths a bit if we were willing to cancel or significantly delay a lot of flights.

I think the air ambulance safety track record has also been a subject of some conccern recently.
I don't know about that, but every pilot I've ever met in person, including my flight instructors when I was taking flying lessons (sadly, I never completed them, though I hope to finish someday), has had the utmost professionalism and care and concern for the instrument he or she is operating.

There is a saying among pilots:

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots."

I suggest you spend some time reading through one of my favorite threads on FlyerTalk:

The United Pilot Q&A Thread

After reading the literally thousands of responses by the three or four UA pilots who have generously donated countless hours of their time answering people's questions, you can see the level of professionalism inherent in their personalities. The fact is, most pilots do choose to delay a flight when a certain element of risk exists, whether it's a mechanical issue, weather issue, or whatever. Pilots are inherently risk-averse people.

In my (albeit limited) experience on the railroad, that was not always the case. Many were, and if the element of risk was high enough, they'd take proper action, but if they could manage to just get by, they'd have no problem continuing on. For example, if a car's brakes weren't engaging properly, the conductor would just have the engineer release and reapply the brakes to see if that fixed the problem. If that didn't, they'd cut the brakeline by closing the car's angle **** and then plugging the cut of cars from the rear (dropping the rear half of the cut into emergency) and then reopening the angle ****. If that fixed it, away they went, and the car was not bad-ordered. The idea behind it was, "Hey, sometimes stuff just gets stuck...it's no biggie." It's just a small example, and yes, a single car's brakes failing isn't going to make train any harder to stop, but that's the idea. Perhaps a better example would be "skirting the rules" on things like tying handbrakes on moving cars. The Alaska Railroad's rules technically require red zone protection (engineer must acknowledge that the trainman is going "between the rails" and "set and center" the locomotive [engine brakes set and reverser centered]) whenever the trainman was in a position where he was inside an imaginary vertical plane extending up from the rails, which most cars' handbrakes are inside. They also forbade moving directly from one car to another without disembarking from each car, even when the handbrake platforms were directly opposite each other. Yet these two rules were routinely violated, and conductors and engineers would get mad at new brakemen on probation because they were doing everything properly and therefore making the job take longer. The attitude on the railroad was always "how much can you get away with without the supervisor calling you on the rules."
 
the reason this guy creates so much controversy is that hes gay.
Are gay people not allowed to drive trains in America then?
No, but conservative America hates gays. Hello Proposition 8 #8. The single, most disgusting and vile issue on Nov 5th of 2008.

It's just a way of saying 'hey this is why Gays are bad they crash trains' because you know a straight person has never, ever done that before.

and no I am not a lesbian or gay. Just believe in the word equal rights.
Mercedeslove, you are introducing something totally extraneous to the subject.
I agree with Georege, and wholly irrelevant too.

However, the thing that bothers me the most is that from the text messages Sanchez basically states that he is going to allow someone who isn't an employee of the railroad in that craft, and underaged, to operate a passenger train with passengers on board. Everything about it including lack of training just screams to me "trainwreck" pardon the pun. If anything had happened in that situation the liability would be through the roof and we all know that management would never sign off on anything like that.
 
Hold on a second:

I post this here because it is the most active forum here. I am calling on all people who enjoy trains, whether you enjoy riding them, photographing them, or just looking at them, to join me in speaking out against the behavior displayed by the teenage railfans [/b[in connection with the Metrolink Chatsworth wreck.
 

EXCUSE ME! But what pills have you taken?

 

You're blaming the kids for.. being kids!
 
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