76 replies to this topic

[WhoozOn1st]

This can't wait for the Trip Report.

Is there such a thing as an "Amtrak Special Agent?"

This morning (11-9-08) I was boarding Surfliner 775 at SAN when I was accosted at the car door by a seedy little guy with a beard and vaguely reptilian features. He flashed a Passport (why?), then a funny-looking document that indicated he was Amtrak Special Agent Pat. Thinking he was a loony, I said "Cool! My name's Patrick too," and turned to board. He stopped me, and said he had some questions. He was serious. "Oh GREAT," I thought, expecting a hassle about line jumping. I was ready to point out that although I was among the first to board, and not from the line, I had in fact been waiting at the station longer than anybody in the line. As usual, I had been hanging out for pictures of any action (nothing except light rail and station shots until 566 - my 775 - arrived 12 minutes late).

But it was photography that the troll had on his mind. He wanted to know why I had been walking around taking pictures. First of all, if he was so all-fired curious to know this, he had had the entire previous hour or so to inquire, instead of choosing to impede my boarding. I didn't bring this up, but politely explained that I like trains, like riding trains, enjoy taking pictures of trains, and do these things all the time. To finish, I spread my hands, shrugged, smiled, and said "I'm a railfan!"

"Yes, that's getting to be a big organization."

WOW. Rarely does one have the opportunity to witness somebody label themselves completely ignorant by uttering a single statement. Naturally I was stunned, and started to get a little worried. Ignorance scares me, especially in people who might have some control over me. And that's why I began with the above question: It is almost inconceivable to me that an "Amtrak Special Agent," if such a thing exists (and I had to assume it does), would be so thoroughly uninformed as to speak of my being a railfan in terms of me being a member of some "Railfan, The Organization."

After disabusing him of his wrongheaded notion that I'm part of any organization (didn't mention AGR membership - does that count?) I essentially repeated the stuff about liking trains, riding them, and photographing them, adding that I'd been riding and taking pictures in the area all weekend, and he was the first nonphotographer to express any interest.

He started rattling off some crap about security concerns, and I formed the distinct impression that no matter what I said, the clown's responses were pre-programmed. Probably at the General Moronics Corp. factory (Flotsam's Mistake, NJ), which turns out mindless automatons (and loonies) like Amtrak Special Agent Pat.

Finally he got to the meat of his mania. He said that in the Post-911 Era ("Here we go," I thought) there is concern about people who take pictures of crowds. I asked "What crowd did I take a picture of? There's no crowd here." "The people waiting at the station." "That's not a crowd. It's a boarding line, and I took a picture of the end of it, with the streetcar behind them." EDIT: Here again there had been time to question me earlier instead of hassling me during boarding; about 15 minutes.

He blathered more about the need for security, as representatives of the Dept. of Fear Mongering often do, asked me where I live, and my last name - which he texted into some Blackberry-looking gizmo - while blithely assuring me, in a veiled threat sort of way, that I was under no obligation to cooperate. Oh yeah? And if I don't? I just wanted to get a window seat, and had told him this twice, before on the third time he declared us done and wished me a good trip. You can imagine the choice reply I muttered under my breath as I finally climbed the stairs, and despite the worst efforts of Amtrak Special Agent Pat, managed to find a window seat in the coach/cafe car.

In retrospect it was interesting, in these tough economic times, to encounter somebody who DESERVES to be unemployed.

To whom do I complain? Don't care if it does any good, I wanna tell somebody at Amtrak how reprehensible this sort of harassment is, especially to someone who has been - and remains, despite this kind of treatment at the hands of idiot hirelings - an avid supporter and customer of Amtrak since its inception.

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

Hate to break it to ya... but...

Background
Secretary of State Colin Powell, in consultation with the Attorney General, designated the following organizations, thereby placing them on the Terrorist Exclusion List (TEL). Ten groups were added to the TEL on April 29, 2004.

Terrorist Exclusion List Designees (alphabetical listing)

Afghan Support Committee (a.k.a. Ahya ul Turas; a.k.a. Jamiat Ayat-ur-Rhas al Islamia; a.k.a. Jamiat Ihya ul Turath al Islamia; a.k.a. Lajnat el Masa Eidatul Afghania)
Al Taqwa Trade, Property and Industry Company Ltd. (f.k.a. Al Taqwa Trade, Property and Industry; f.k.a. Al Taqwa Trade, Property and Industry Establishment; f.k.a. Himmat Establishment; a.k.a. Waldenberg, AG)
Al-Hamati Sweets Bakeries
Al-Ittihad al-Islami (AIAI)
Al-Manar
Al-Ma’unah
Al-Nur Honey Center
Al-Rashid Trust
Al-Shifa Honey Press for Industry and Commerce
Al-Wafa al-Igatha al-Islamia (a.k.a. Wafa Humanitarian Organization; a.k.a. Al Wafa; a.k.a. Al Wafa Organization)
Alex Boncayao Brigade (ABB)
Amtrak Railfanning Armada (AFA) <---- RIGHT HERE
Anarchist Faction for Overthrow
Army for the Liberation of Rwanda (ALIR) (a.k.a. Interahamwe, Former Armed Forces (EX-FAR))
Asbat al-Ansar
Babbar Khalsa International
Bank Al Taqwa Ltd. (a.k.a. Al Taqwa Bank; a.k.a. Bank Al Taqwa)
Black Star
Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) (a.k.a. CPN(M); a.k.a. the United Revolutionary People’s Council, a.k.a. the People’s Liberation Army of Nepal)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA) (a.k.a. Continuity Army Council)
Darkazanli Company
Dhamat Houmet Daawa Salafia (a.k.a. Group Protectors of Salafist Preaching; a.k.a. Houmat Ed Daawa Es Salifiya; a.k.a. Katibat El Ahoual; a.k.a. Protectors of the Salafist Predication; a.k.a. El-Ahoual Battalion; a.k.a. Katibat El Ahouel; a.k.a. Houmate Ed-Daawa Es-Salafia; a.k.a. the Horror Squadron; a.k.a. Djamaat Houmat Eddawa Essalafia; a.k.a. Djamaatt Houmat Ed Daawa Es Salafiya; a.k.a. Salafist Call Protectors; a.k.a. Djamaat Houmat Ed Daawa Es Salafiya; a.k.a. Houmate el Da’awaa es-Salafiyya; a.k.a. Protectors of the Salafist Call; a.k.a. Houmat ed-Daaoua es-Salafia; a.k.a. Group of Supporters of the Salafiste Trend; a.k.a. Group of Supporters of the Salafist Trend)
Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (a.k.a. Eastern Turkistan Islamic Party; a.k.a. ETIM; a.k.a. ETIP)
First of October Antifascist Resistance Group (GRAPO) (a.k.a. Grupo de Resistencia Anti-Fascista Premero De Octubre)
Harakat ul Jihad i Islami (HUJI)
International Sikh Youth Federation
Islamic Army of Aden
Islamic Renewal and Reform Organization
Jamiat al-Ta’awun al-Islamiyya
Jamiat ul-Mujahideen (JUM)
Japanese Red Army (JRA)
Jaysh-e-Mohammed
Jayshullah
Jerusalem Warriors
Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LET) (a.k.a. Army of the Righteous)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF)
Makhtab al-Khidmat
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (a.k.a. GICM; a.k.a. Groupe Islamique Combattant Marocain)
Nada Management Organization (f.k.a. Al Taqwa Management Organization SA)
New People’s Army (NPA)
Orange Volunteers (OV)
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs (PAGAD)
Red Brigades-Combatant Communist Party (BR-PCC)
Red Hand Defenders (RHD)
Revival of Islamic Heritage Society (Pakistan and Afghanistan offices -- Kuwait office not designated) (a.k.a. Jamia Ihya ul Turath; a.k.a. Jamiat Ihia Al- Turath Al-Islamiya; a.k.a. Revival of Islamic Society Heritage on the African Continent)
Revolutionary Proletarian Nucleus
Revolutionary United Front (RUF)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
The Allied Democratic Forces (ADF)
The Islamic International Brigade (a.k.a. International Battalion, a.k.a. Islamic Peacekeeping International Brigade, a.k.a. Peacekeeping Battalion, a.k.a. The International Brigade, a.k.a. The Islamic Peacekeeping Army, a.k.a. The Islamic Peacekeeping Brigade)
The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)
The Pentagon Gang
The Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs (a.k.a. Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion, a.k.a. Riyadh-as-Saliheen, a.k.a. the Sabotage and Military Surveillance Group of the Riyadh al-Salihin Martyrs, a.k.a. Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Shahids (Martyrs))
The Special Purpose Islamic Regiment (a.k.a. the Islamic Special Purpose Regiment, a.k.a. the al-Jihad-Fisi-Sabililah Special Islamic Regiment, a.k.a. Islamic Regiment of Special Meaning)
Tunisian Combat Group (a.k.a. GCT, a.k.a. Groupe Combattant Tunisien, a.k.a. Jama’a Combattante Tunisien, a.k.a. JCT; a.k.a. Tunisian Combatant Group)
Turkish Hizballah
Ulster Defense Association (a.k.a. Ulster Freedom Fighters)
Ummah Tameer E-Nau (UTN) (a.k.a. Foundation for Construction; a.k.a. Nation Building; a.k.a. Reconstruction Foundation; a.k.a. Reconstruction of the Islamic Community; a.k.a. Reconstruction of the Muslim Ummah; a.k.a. Ummah Tameer I-Nau; a.k.a. Ummah Tameer E-Nau; a.k.a. Ummah Tameer-I-Pau)
Youssef M. Nada & Co. Gesellschaft M.B.H.

Edited by ALC_Rail_Writer, 09 November 2008 - 11:39 PM.

[GG-1]

This can't wait for the Trip Report.

Is there such a thing as an "Amtrak Special Agent?"

Snip

He blathered more about the need for security, as representatives of the Dept. of Fear Mongering often do, asked me where I live, and my last name - which he texted into some Blackberry-looking gizmo - while blithely assuring me, in a veiled threat sort of way, that I was under no obligation to cooperate. Oh yeah? And if I don't? I just wanted to get a window seat, and had told him this twice, before on the third time he declared us done and wished me a good trip.

Hope you gave him a PO box address

In retrospect it was interesting, in these tough economic times, to encounter somebody who DESERVES to be unemployed.

To whom do I complain? Don't care if it does any good, I wanna tell somebody at Amtrak how reprehensible this sort of harassment is, especially to someone who has been - and remains, despite this kind of treatment at the hands of idiot hirelings - an avid supporter and customer of Amtrak since its inception.

Would expect it to be the usual Customer Service address for complaints.

On a lighter note were you wearing your Fez?

[AlanB]

What you should have asked him is "why does Amtrak have a contest to submit the best picture each year if taking pictures is a problem?"

I'm quite certain that he wouldn't have had an answer for that one.

[PetalumaLoco]

Hate to break it to ya... but...

Background
Secretary of State Colin Powell, in consultation with the Attorney General, designated the following organizations, thereby placing them on the Terrorist Exclusion List (TEL). Ten groups were added to the TEL on April 29, 2004.

Terrorist Exclusion List Designees (alphabetical listing)


Amtrak Railfanning Armada (AFA) <---- RIGHT HERE


Youssef M. Nada & Co. Gesellschaft M.B.H.

Funny. Amtrak Railfanning Armada (AFA) doesn't show up with google.

[PetalumaLoco]

What you should have asked him is "why does Amtrak have a contest to submit the best picture each year if taking pictures is a problem?"

I'm quite certain that he wouldn't have had an answer for that one.

He probably has a daily quota to fill to justify his existence.

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

What you should have asked him is "why does Amtrak have a contest to submit the best picture each year if taking pictures is a problem?"

I'm quite certain that he wouldn't have had an answer for that one.

I'm a big Bill O Right Fighter... I'm the type that, at Walmart, if they ask me for my receipt as I'm leaving (with shopping bags and middle aged mom behind me) I start quoting United States Code as I walk out the door...

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

Hate to break it to ya... but...

Background
Secretary of State Colin Powell, in consultation with the Attorney General, designated the following organizations, thereby placing them on the Terrorist Exclusion List (TEL). Ten groups were added to the TEL on April 29, 2004.

Terrorist Exclusion List Designees (alphabetical listing)


Amtrak Railfanning Armada (AFA) <---- RIGHT HERE


Youssef M. Nada & Co. Gesellschaft M.B.H.

Funny. Amtrak Railfanning Armada (AFA) doesn't show up with google.

Of course not! That's why they need "special" agents to track them down..

[the_traveler]

What you should have asked him is "why does Amtrak have a contest to submit the best picture each year if taking pictures is a problem?"

I'm quite certain that he wouldn't have had an answer for that one.

... and the picture on the 2009 Amtrak wall calendar is a photo of a Surfliner at ..................... SAN!

[profwebs]

Lucky for him he harassed a nice fella like you who wouldn't ask him why he waited an hour to come ask the questions. He may have heard obscenities from me depending on the mood I was in, and as soon as he told me I was under no obligation to cooperate, I would have walked away.

Also, it depends on his demeanor, as with any law enforcement agency, there are some people who understand the respect and attitude they give is directly proportional to the respect and attitude they receive in return.

[WhoozOn1st]

Hope you gave him a PO box address

In retrospect it was interesting, in these tough economic times, to encounter somebody who DESERVES to be unemployed.

To whom do I complain? Don't care if it does any good, I wanna tell somebody at Amtrak how reprehensible this sort of harassment is, especially to someone who has been - and remains, despite this kind of treatment at the hands of idiot hirelings - an avid supporter and customer of Amtrak since its inception.

Would expect it to be the usual Customer Service address for complaints.

On a lighter note were you wearing your Fez?

Amtrak Special Agent Pat didn't pursue where I live beyond the town, and I only wear the fez for group events, like our Gatherings, or special railfan (NOT "The Organization") events like the San Diego steam excursion and Starlight Tehachapi detour.

As for complaining, since originally posting about this harassment I recalled that I have the business card and e-mail address of an Amtrak Service Quality and Product Management manager I met and spoke with aboard the Coast Starlight not too long ago. Think I'll start there.

While not one for boasts like "He picked on the wrong guy," I'm not gonna let the matter drop.

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

Hope you gave him a PO box address

In retrospect it was interesting, in these tough economic times, to encounter somebody who DESERVES to be unemployed.

To whom do I complain? Don't care if it does any good, I wanna tell somebody at Amtrak how reprehensible this sort of harassment is, especially to someone who has been - and remains, despite this kind of treatment at the hands of idiot hirelings - an avid supporter and customer of Amtrak since its inception.

Would expect it to be the usual Customer Service address for complaints.

On a lighter note were you wearing your Fez?

Amtrak Special Agent Pat didn't pursue where I live beyond the town, and I only wear the fez for group events, like our Gatherings, or special railfan (NOT "The Organization") events like the San Diego steam excursion and Starlight Tehachapi detour.

As for complaining, since originally posting about this harassment I recalled that I have the business card and e-mail address of an Amtrak Service Quality and Product Management manager I met and spoke with aboard the Coast Starlight not too long ago. Think I'll start there.

While not one for boasts like "He picked on the wrong guy," I'm not gonna let the matter drop.

Don't miss the railfanning Godfather!

Seriously, if I ever run into Amtrak Special Agent Pat I'll extend my sincerest greetings from the Don.

One more time for effect...

Amtrak Special Agent Pat

[WhoozOn1st]

One more time for effect...

Amtrak Special Agent Pat

Dude, I always write for effect. In this case Amtrak Special Agent Pat disgusted me on a personal level. I repeat his title and name with a combination of scorn and embarassment on behalf of all of us decent and non-ignorant people named Patrick. Amtrak Special Agent Pat, is in my view fortunate to be working for Amtrak in this enlightened era of employment for the mentally challenged.

I'm old enough that I worked for the state agency charged with such things at a time when the term "special," outside stuff like the FBI, romance, or occasions, was a euphemism for mentally retarded.

In those days Amtrak Special Agent Pat would have lived quite comfortably, free of any necessity to inflict his peculiar disability on the general public in order to collect a salary, in a nice Home.

[ALC_Rail_Writer]

One more time for effect...

Amtrak Special Agent Pat

Dude, I always write for effect. In this case Amtrak Special Agent Pat disgusted me on a personal level. I repeat his title and name with a combination of scorn and embarassment on behalf of all of us decent and non-ignorant people named Patrick. Amtrak Special Agent Pat, is in my view fortunate to be working for Amtrak in this enlightened era of employment for the mentally challenged.

I'm old enough that I worked for the state agency charged with such things at a time when the term "special," outside stuff like the FBI, romance, or occasions, was a euphemism for mentally retarded.

In those days Amtrak Special Agent Pat would have lived quite comfortably, free of any necessity to inflict his peculiar disability on the general public in order to collect a salary, in a nice Home.

Well I agree with you in condoning the actions of Amtrak Special Agent Pat. I just hope that Amtrak Special Agent Pat doesn't have an account here. I doubt he (Amtrak Special Agent Pat) actually does.

That being the case, I invite Amtrak Special Agent Pat come and join "Railfans: The Organization" and then we can put all of this aside so he can go investigate Peace Fresno or something.

Until then, all AU members must be aware of Amtrak Special Agent Pats 'special needs' and note, than when a man next presents himself to us as "Amtrak Special Agent Pat" that we must educate him about "Railfans: The Organization" in a most cheerful manner.

[WhoozOn1st]

Well I agree with you in condoning the actions of Amtrak Special Agent Pat.

Um, dude, I suggest that you consult a dictionary regarding the word "condone." Given the definitions writers (and people in general) usually use, you'd be hard pressed to find anything said in my posts, or any replies, to indicate any condoning of Amtrak Special Agent Pat's behavior.

I applaud your writing attempts, and congratulate you on your graduation, Summa Cum Louder, from the George W. Bush Skool of Higher Wordification, and potential elevation to the Dan Quayle School of Remedial Spelling & Grammar ("Can't Get No French Frys Widout No PotatoEs").

It's said that at campus parties it's hard to get a drink. The Bush daughters down most of 'em before anybody else has a chance.

Best of luck!

[amtrakwolverine]

if he made you miss you train could you have sued him for harassment and missing the train. maybe you should do that anyway. if enough of us railfans sue the word will go out you don't mess with the railfan organization

[MattW]

Perhaps slapping him with a citizens arrest? To be honest, I'm surprised he didn't slip "nucluar weapons" into it somehow. Let's see, a platform is considered public property right? (behind the yellow line of course) so technically, by harassing you, he was depriving you of your right to peaceably assemble or putting you in fear thereof.

[amtrakwolverine]

lets stage a protest lets get 100 of use members at every train station with cameras and the media and snap pictures of trains all day long with the news watching. THAT SHOULD TELL SECURITY TO BACK OFF.

[had8ley]

This can't wait for the Trip Report.

Is there such a thing as an "Amtrak Special Agent?"

This morning (11-9-08) I was boarding Surfliner 775 at SAN when I was accosted at the car door by a seedy little guy with a beard and vaguely reptilian features. He flashed a Passport (why?), then a funny-looking document that indicated he was Amtrak Special Agent Pat. Thinking he was a loony, I said "Cool! My name's Patrick too," and turned to board. He stopped me, and said he had some questions. He was serious. "Oh GREAT," I thought, expecting a hassle about line jumping. I was ready to point out that although I was among the first to board, and not from the line, I had in fact been waiting at the station longer than anybody in the line. As usual, I had been hanging out for pictures of any action (nothing except light rail and station shots until 566 - my 775 - arrived 12 minutes late).

But it was photography that the troll had on his mind. He wanted to know why I had been walking around taking pictures. First of all, if he was so all-fired curious to know this, he had had the entire previous hour or so to inquire, instead of choosing to impede my boarding. I didn't bring this up, but politely explained that I like trains, like riding trains, enjoy taking pictures of trains, and do these things all the time. To finish, I spread my hands, shrugged, smiled, and said "I'm a railfan!"

"Yes, that's getting to be a big organization."

WOW. Rarely does one have the opportunity to witness somebody label themselves completely ignorant by uttering a single statement. Naturally I was stunned, and started to get a little worried. Ignorance scares me, especially in people who might have some control over me. And that's why I began with the above question: It is almost inconceivable to me that an "Amtrak Special Agent," if such a thing exists (and I had to assume it does), would be so thoroughly uninformed as to speak of my being a railfan in terms of me being a member of some "Railfan, The Organization."

After disabusing him of his wrongheaded notion that I'm part of any organization (didn't mention AGR membership - does that count?) I essentially repeated the stuff about liking trains, riding them, and photographing them, adding that I'd been riding and taking pictures in the area all weekend, and he was the first nonphotographer to express any interest.

He started rattling off some crap about security concerns, and I formed the distinct impression that no matter what I said, the clown's responses were pre-programmed. Probably at the General Moronics Corp. factory (Flotsam's Mistake, NJ), which turns out mindless automatons (and loonies) like Amtrak Special Agent Pat.

Finally he got to the meat of his mania. He said that in the Post-911 Era ("Here we go," I thought) there is concern about people who take pictures of crowds. I asked "What crowd did I take a picture of? There's no crowd here." "The people waiting at the station." "That's not a crowd. It's a boarding line, and I took a picture of the end of it, with the streetcar behind them." EDIT: Here again there had been time to question me earlier instead of hassling me during boarding; about 15 minutes.

He blathered more about the need for security, as representatives of the Dept. of Fear Mongering often do, asked me where I live, and my last name - which he texted into some Blackberry-looking gizmo - while blithely assuring me, in a veiled threat sort of way, that I was under no obligation to cooperate. Oh yeah? And if I don't? I just wanted to get a window seat, and had told him this twice, before on the third time he declared us done and wished me a good trip. You can imagine the choice reply I muttered under my breath as I finally climbed the stairs, and despite the worst efforts of Amtrak Special Agent Pat, managed to find a window seat in the coach/cafe car.

In retrospect it was interesting, in these tough economic times, to encounter somebody who DESERVES to be unemployed.

To whom do I complain? Don't care if it does any good, I wanna tell somebody at Amtrak how reprehensible this sort of harassment is, especially to someone who has been - and remains, despite this kind of treatment at the hands of idiot hirelings - an avid supporter and customer of Amtrak since its inception.

Patrick;
I am sincerely sorry this happened to you. Let me explain something about RR'ing that you may or may not know. When there is a "budget crunch" the first two departments that our Class 1 hit was maintenance of way and the "special" agents. My first encounter with one was when I was spotting a carload of beer in downtown New Orleans. I heard a rustling in the weeds and threw some ballast to see if it was a wharf rat. Well up stands our special agent in Viet Cong black pajamas packing a sawed off shotgun~ I thought I was back in Nam! He told me he was staking out the beer car and not to let my switch lantern go out or he wouldn't hesitate to blow me away. I went and cut off the engine and went back to the yard office. The yardmaster's response to my howling? "Oh, he's a nut that threw off of the New Orleans force and we got stuck with him." The job pays next to nothing for a law enforcemnt officer and they literally have hundreds of miles to cover. I've seen them jump onto moving trains to drag hobos off. That same beer car goof ball had a hobo handcuffed to a telegraph pole in the yard one night. The mosquitoes were eating the poor guy up. It took four hours for the local parish cops to come pick him up for "trespassing." I've never been able to hold much of an intelligent conversation with many of them except the haz-mat special agents who have some schooling behind them.
I'm not condoning this agent's actions~ just giving you a background as to yes, they do exist, and yes, most of them qualify for a Looney Tunes cartoon.

[OlympianHiawatha]

I definitely smell a rat here and it sounds like you encountered an impersonator of some sort or someone operating well out of his bounds. I would have firmly told him to go find something better to do, and if he so much as laid a hand on me, he would have met the ground so fast he wouldn't have time to think about what happened. At that point the law would have been on your side.