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Gingee

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As someone else mentioned, there is not any trains available to go to Florida unless you along the Atlantic coast. I wonder why there hasn't been any train travel from say Chicago to Florida? I know you need tracks but was there ever train travel for that direction?
 
ah this will obviously bring up the cut back of the Sunset Limited so might as well start it. Yes there was in fact serive from LA to Florida on the Sunset Limited which after hurricane Katrina ceased to exist. Without the proper termination of service notices going out. So yes if you wanted to go from Chicago from Florida you could take the City of New Orleans and from there connect to the sunset limited and arrive in florida. Now yes your only choice are the the two silver service trains.
 
From 1971 ( when Amtrak inherited passenger trains from the private RRs ) to 1979, the "Floridian" ran between Chicago and Florida. It went via Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, and then to Jacksonville. It was plagued by the condition of the ex-PRR tracks, and the condition of track overall during the 1970s. There has been discussion of restoration from time to time, but nothing seems to come of it. there have also been studies that seem to suggest that the Upper Midwest - Florida travel market is smaller than the NE - FL market. these studies seem to indicate that folks in the Upper Midwest go places besides Florida for their winter travel. Maybe they go to Hawaii or AZ more.
 
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these studies seem to indicate that folks in the Upper Midwest go places besides Florida for their winter travel. Maybe they go to Hawaii or AZ more.
Maybe Amtrak should start service to Hawaii! :lol:
Eric would love it :)
Of course it wouldn't make sense to tie up passenger cars on a ferry to Hawaii, but ferry is how UP used to get to San Francisco before the Bay Bridge was built. Mile 0 on UP tracks is in SF but noone has ever been able to tell me if they measure the water or bridge route to the East Bay, or something else.
 
So yes if you wanted to go from Chicago from Florida you could take the City of New Orleans and from there connect to the sunset limited and arrive in florida. Now yes your only choice are the the two silver service trains.
Why is Chicago to Washington (Capitol Limited), and from there, Washington to Florida (as you motioned, one of the Silvers) such a very bad journey? With the Sunset, one still had to make at least one connection, and possibly two if one needed to use one of the Silvers too depending on where one wanted to go in Florida (Miami?).
 
As WCIT106 pointed out above there used to be the Floridian (originally known as the South WInd) from CHI to Florida but it did not last for the reasons noted.

But before that, before Amtrak, there is a long and involved history of several trains on several routes from Chicago to Florida. I suspect that to review all that would be a lot, lot more info than you really want.

Rest assured that almost anywhere in this country you would like train service,probably used to have service.

Trains almost disappeared. That is the whole point of Amtrak being created in 1971. It was an attempt to sort of tear down the system all over the country and start all over again with a few chosen routes which had the most promise. The South Wind (later Floridian) route was among those retained but it had so many problems it became almost a joke-- wrecks,enormous delays, poor tracks.

Amtrak's stated goal of eventually becoming a larger system has not quite worked out with as much success as had been hoped.

Incidentally, the route of the South Wind/Floridian was: Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham, Montgomery, Jacksonville, Miami. It did NOT go through Atlanta as some sometimes wonder.There were, as I said, quite a few other routes,some of which served Atlanta, the further back you go in time and before Amtrak.
 
The Floridian became more dependable when Amtrak swiched from the ex Pennsy line from Chicago to Louisvile to the ex Monon line. I had traveled on the South Wind and Floridian quite a bit on the entire route and parts of the route from 1966 through 1979 when it was discontinued. In the late 1960s when the Southwind ran on alternate days with the City of Miami, it was very well patronized with 16 revenue Sleepers and Coaches in the winter month. Even in the first 5 years of Amtrak when it was daily, it was well patronized with 2 sleepers and 5 coaches in the winter months. Often times when the train ran on the PRR line it was 12 hours late arriving in Chicago which put in Union Station at 2AM missing all connections. Passengers were saying "never again" and patronage dropped off. After the change to the Monon line, the Floridian was more dependable. It also picked up some new passengers from Lafayette and Bloomington, Ind both college towns. The schedule was still slower than most of the pre Amtrak Chicago-Florida trains. As has been discussed here before, there needs to be a major upgrade to tracks to make a Chicago-Florida train a viable option.
 
there have also been studies that seem to suggest that the Upper Midwest - Florida travel market is smaller than the NE - FL market. these studies seem to indicate that folks in the Upper Midwest go places besides Florida for their winter travel. Maybe they go to Hawaii or AZ more.
I believe they go to the Phoenix area mostly. Maybe they should bring back the "Golden State" instead.
 
From "Amtrak In The Heartland," by Craig Sanders, page 90:

"The Floridian often had good loads during the winter, and the Midwest - Florida travel market is vast. Amtrak's New York - Florida route is popular, so why couldn't a Chicago - Florida route have similar success ? The answer lies in differences between the markets. Railroads offering New York - Florida service in the 1960s made money and offered high - quality service. Railroads in the Midwest - Florida market saw it as futile and eliminated or downgraded their trains. Chicago - Miami is 80 miles longer than New York - Miami, but because of route configurations the best time Amtrak might muster is 7 hours longer than the New York route. Amtrak's 1990 report observed that states along the Chicago - Florida route generate 60 percent of the travel volume of the Northeast - Florida market. Yet with a population 45 percent of New York, Chicago generated 30 percent as many airline trips to Florida. "This seems to suggest that there may be less of a Midwestern affinity, as compared to New York, to travel to Florida by common carrier," the report concluded.
 
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The Floridian became more dependable when Amtrak swiched from the ex Pennsy line from Chicago to Louisvile to the ex Monon line. I had traveled on the South Wind and Floridian quite a bit on the entire route and parts of the route from 1966 through 1979 when it was discontinued. In the late 1960s when the Southwind ran on alternate days with the City of Miami, it was very well patronized with 16 revenue Sleepers and Coaches in the winter month. Even in the first 5 years of Amtrak when it was daily, it was well patronized with 2 sleepers and 5 coaches in the winter months. Often times when the train ran on the PRR line it was 12 hours late arriving in Chicago which put in Union Station at 2AM missing all connections. Passengers were saying "never again" and patronage dropped off. After the change to the Monon line, the Floridian was more dependable. It also picked up some new passengers from Lafayette and Bloomington, Ind both college towns. The schedule was still slower than most of the pre Amtrak Chicago-Florida trains. As has been discussed here before, there needs to be a major upgrade to tracks to make a Chicago-Florida train a viable option.
I have a question for you and a memory I want to share. The question: the 2 a.m.arrivals you are speaking of, do you mean under Amtrak or was the route showing that much deteriation even before?

I suspect you are kind of a South Wind buff. In that case you will appreciate hearing about the first time I saw the South wind. We were visiting my aunt in Nashville in Feb. 1955. I noticed that a"railroad track of some sort" ran near her back yard. I had no idea it was the L&N main. Shortly after arrivng her house I heard a whisle. I went to look. And there , racing across her backyard, in all of its glory, was a full length tuscan red 18 car winter season South Wind with 3 purple ACL engines. What a thrill!! And to be completely unexpected. Naturally I spent the rest of the visit glued to the back window.
 
And there , racing across her backyard, in all of its glory, was a full length Tuscan red 18 car winter season South Wind with 3 purple ACL engines. What a thrill!! And to be completely unexpected. Naturally I spent the rest of the visit glued to the back window.
I saw that train in Chicago when I was there in 1955! Snapped this picture.

Southwind.jpg
 
This of course begs the question...Tom, did you happen to notate on what month/day you took that picture?

Bill, do you happen to know what day you visited your aunt in Nashville?

;)

Rafi
Rafi - I can't remember what happened last week, so no, I don't remember other than we usually vacationed in Chicago to see my grandparents in the summer months when school was out. Does that narrow it down???
 
Rafi - I can't remember what happened last week, so no, I don't remember other than we usually vacationed in Chicago to see my grandparents in the summer months when school was out. Does that narrow it down???
Hahahah. Well, I was sort of halfway joking. Still, it would have been a nice story to have found out you photographed the same train that Bill saw back then.

Rafi
 
Rafi - I can't remember what happened last week, so no, I don't remember other than we usually vacationed in Chicago to see my grandparents in the summer months when school was out. Does that narrow it down???
Hahahah. Well, I was sort of halfway joking. Still, it would have been a nice story to have found out you photographed the same train that Bill saw back then.

Rafi
The exact date is not in the first place for me to look (since I was too young to be getting that detailed.) It would definately be in another place. But it was not the same train since the one I saw was n.b. and the one in the photo is s.b. Also, I know it was in February.

The way I know it was in February is like this. They put my sister and me on the train to return home to Chattanooga that night. That train was the ex-Dixie Flagler, then re-equipped and renamed the Dixieland. That new equipment was placed in December 16 1954, so I was highly aware that I was riding in a train only two months old. You know,that "new train"smell? So that makes it mid-February.

A good thought, though. Who can ever know what contact some of us could have had with each other in past years.
 
Wow... I remember as a kid watching this train go past. We lived on the South side of Indianapolis and along the tracks that ran to Louisville. I can remember the old passenger trains running by and we as kids standing out waving to the engineer and crew as well as passengers waving back to us. Great times (60's & 70's).
 
Wow... I remember as a kid watching this train go past. We lived on the South side of Indianapolis and along the tracks that ran to Louisville. I can remember the old passenger trains running by and we as kids standing out waving to the engineer and crew as well as passengers waving back to us. Great times (60's & 70's).
Well - a little earlier in time and you may have seen me. I took the PRR from Louisville to Chicago a gazillion times in the 50's as a kid.
 
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Wow... I remember as a kid watching this train go past. We lived on the South side of Indianapolis and along the tracks that ran to Louisville. I can remember the old passenger trains running by and we as kids standing out waving to the engineer and crew as well as passengers waving back to us. Great times (60's & 70's).
Well - a little earlier in time and you may have seen me. I took the PRR from Louisville to Chicago a gazillion times in the 50's as a kid.

Tom,

Let me not forget to mention that that was a neat shot you took of our speedy old friend, steaking down the lines as well as across our aunt's back yards.

After seeing trains all day, I was about to put myself up for adoption--to my aunt and uncle.

Billl
 
According to the 4/29/79 timetable, the Floridian would leave Chicago at 9 PM on day 1, and arrive in Miami at 1:10 PM on day 3. A bit less than 40 hours to get there. It now, going CHI to WAS, takes 46, via the Capitol Limited and Silver Meteor.

Now then, we can honestly come close to that time, say 40.5 hours, creating a tri-weekly "Floridian" running CHI-WAS-MIA with 3 P42s, 3 CCCs, 3 Trans/dorms, 4 sleepers, 4 coaches, and 4 coach baggages. Here's how it works. The Capitol Limited on those three days runs P42, Transdorm, 2 WAS sleepers, CCC/Diner, SSL, 3 WAS coaches, 2 FL coaches, 1 FL sleeper. At Washington, the CL breaks up short of the station, decoupling the 2 coaches and one sleeper, then pulls itself into the station. A single P42, coupled to to a CCC and Trans/Dorm, backs up to the other 3 cars, couples, then pulls into WAS. It then leaves shortly along the Silver Meteor route.

The train gets to MIA, and turns for the next day. The train then goes back to WAS, uncouples its CCC and P42, and gets reattached to the CL. In essence, the three CCCs and Trans/Dorms short turn in WAS. For servicing, they could be rotated into the CL.
 
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According to the 4/29/79 timetable, the Floridian would leave Chicago at 9 PM on day 1, and arrive in Miami at 1:10 PM on day 3. A bit less than 40 hours to get there. It now, going CHI to WAS, takes 46, via the Capitol Limited and Silver Meteor.
Now then, we can honestly come close to that time, say 40.5 hours, creating a tri-weekly "Floridian" running CHI-WAS-MIA with 3 P42s, 3 CCCs, 3 Trans/dorms, 4 sleepers, 4 coaches, and 4 coach baggages. Here's how it works. The Capitol Limited on those three days runs P42, Transdorm, 2 WAS sleepers, CCC/Diner, SSL, 3 WAS coaches, 2 FL coaches, 1 FL sleeper. At Washington, the CL breaks up short of the station, decoupling the 2 coaches and one sleeper, then pulls itself into the station. A single P42, coupled to to a CCC and Trans/Dorm, backs up to the other 3 cars, couples, then pulls into WAS. It then leaves shortly along the Silver Meteor route.

The train gets to MIA, and turns for the next day. The train then goes back to WAS, uncouples its CCC and P42, and gets reattached to the CL. In essence, the three CCCs and Trans/Dorms short turn in WAS. For servicing, they could be rotated into the CL.

That might be a good idea,with what we have to work with.

But keep a couple of things in mind, in case you do not already know them.

One,I believe for a brief period of time there was through CHI-MIA equipment on that route. Perhaps it did not work well.

Secondly, just for a little historical perspective, when the South Wind--later called the Floridian-- (and two other trains, the Dixie Flagler and the City of Miam) were placed in service in 1940 they took just over 29 hours. That is about eleven hours faster than the Floridian eventually had to take.

Maybe that does not matter anymore. I am not sure if Amtrak is still trying to sell some concept of "speed" for LD trains. The intersate highways put the trains on the back seat for speed even back then. So much padding, trains like the Sunset Limited, so much slower than they used to be. Maybe taking that much longer isn't too much of a problem.

Who knows?
 
So yes if you wanted to go from Chicago from Florida you could take the City of New Orleans and from there connect to the sunset limited and arrive in florida. Now yes your only choice are the the two silver service trains.
Why is Chicago to Washington (Capitol Limited), and from there, Washington to Florida (as you motioned, one of the Silvers) such a very bad journey? With the Sunset, one still had to make at least one connection, and possibly two if one needed to use one of the Silvers too depending on where one wanted to go in Florida (Miami?).
I was basicly thinking the same thing when I read the OP. Chicago to Miami = 2 nights.... Chicago to LA, SF Portland or Seattle = 2 nights; perhaps a night or two more from a lot of other locations!

I don't see much difference except for the moot point of a Washington connection! It takes me 3 nights w/one connection for most trips I take and I don't think anything about that!

I used to have a job where we had customers drive into Albany NY anywhere from Poughkeepsie, NY up to the Canadian border. The ones that traveled from the extreme tips of the range rarely complained how far they had to travel, but those within say a 30-45 minute drive would regularly say "I traveled all the way from ***** and bla-bla-bla." Of course I think to myself "Big deal! How'd you like to travel from **** like so and so over there!" :eek: I guess like with rail distances, it's all a matter of perspectives!
 
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According to the 4/29/79 timetable, the Floridian would leave Chicago at 9 PM on day 1, and arrive in Miami at 1:10 PM on day 3. A bit less than 40 hours to get there. It now, going CHI to WAS, takes 46, via the Capitol Limited and Silver Meteor.
Now then, we can honestly come close to that time, say 40.5 hours, creating a tri-weekly "Floridian" running CHI-WAS-MIA with 3 P42s, 3 CCCs, 3 Trans/dorms, 4 sleepers, 4 coaches, and 4 coach baggages. Here's how it works. The Capitol Limited on those three days runs P42, Transdorm, 2 WAS sleepers, CCC/Diner, SSL, 3 WAS coaches, 2 FL coaches, 1 FL sleeper. At Washington, the CL breaks up short of the station, decoupling the 2 coaches and one sleeper, then pulls itself into the station. A single P42, coupled to to a CCC and Trans/Dorm, backs up to the other 3 cars, couples, then pulls into WAS. It then leaves shortly along the Silver Meteor route.

The train gets to MIA, and turns for the next day. The train then goes back to WAS, uncouples its CCC and P42, and gets reattached to the CL. In essence, the three CCCs and Trans/Dorms short turn in WAS. For servicing, they could be rotated into the CL.

That might be a good idea,with what we have to work with.

But keep a couple of things in mind, in case you do not already know them.

One,I believe for a brief period of time there was through CHI-MIA equipment on that route. Perhaps it did not work well.

Secondly, just for a little historical perspective, when the South Wind--later called the Floridian-- (and two other trains, the Dixie Flagler and the City of Miam) were placed in service in 1940 they took just over 29 hours. That is about eleven hours faster than the Floridian eventually had to take.

Maybe that does not matter anymore. I am not sure if Amtrak is still trying to sell some concept of "speed" for LD trains. The intersate highways put the trains on the back seat for speed even back then. So much padding, trains like the Sunset Limited, so much slower than they used to be. Maybe taking that much longer isn't too much of a problem.

Who knows?
The concept would have died, if not already dead, when the Capitol Limited went Superliner. That changes everything.

Anyway, I'm something of an Amtrak historian. I've never seen through cars on the Capitol Limited.
 
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