Empire being flagged

What does being flagged at a crossing mean? I saw the Stupid Semi clip & must concur even though I haven't traveled one inch of rail!!!!

When a crossing is "flagged" 90% of the time the gates or lights aren't working propely. A track maintainer will be at the crossing holding cars with flags. Trains will go through the crossing between 5-10 MPH. Sometimes if a maintainer is not in the area a conducter or any crew member will flag the crossing.

Acela150 said:

When a crossing is "flagged" 90% of the time the gates or lights aren't working propely. A track maintainer will be at the crossing holding cars with flags. Trains will go through the crossing between 5-10 MPH. Sometimes if a maintainer is not in the area a conducter or any crew member will flag the crossing.

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These days you're just as likely to see them holding flares as flags, even moreso at night.

That would be fun on a 150 car freight.

Green Maned Lion said:

That would be fun on a 150 car freight.

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It is. I've done it. Almost got killed by a driver who decided to ignore me and almost plow through the crossing (and me). My last dying action would have been to shove the lit fusee in his eye socket.

Actually, I didn't have to stand there the whole time--no need to; I just had to flag the engine through the crossing. Once the engine mostly occupied the crossing, I swung onto the stair and hopped up into the cab. (The Alaska Railroad allowed getting on moving equipment--at least when I was there; I've heard they've since stopped. Some, if not most, railroads forbid this for "safety" reasons...it really hurts efficiency to have to stop every time someone needs to get on or off!)

(And actually, I wasn't waving the fusee--too dangerous. I lit it and put it on the ground next to the crossing gate--one on each side of the roadway. They're bright enough that drivers should have seen them and then at least been looking for me in my big bright orange safety vest...)

Green Maned Lion said:

That would be fun on a 150 car freight.

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There is no need to flag for entire train, flagging a crossing means a crew member or recognizable railroad employee will stop traffic untill engine occupies the crossing.

as for rest of train thats what headlights on cars are for, and lately railroads have about 7 yellow reflectors on each freight car.

Flagging can not prevent stupidity.

As evidenced by the Capitol Corridor getting smacked right in the middle by a vehicle.

It's the same reason why Engineers only have to blow their horn until the engine/train is occupying the crossing. In theory once the crossing is blocked with a large metal object, no one will be getting across it (or trying).

Dutchrailnut said:

There is no need to flag for entire train, flagging a crossing means a crew member or recognizable railroad employee will stop traffic untill engine occupies the crossing.as for rest of train thats what headlights on cars are for, and lately railroads have about 7 yellow reflectors on each freight car.

Flagging can not prevent stupidity.

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I almost ran into a train in the middle of the night at a non-lighted crossing. It was in the woods and the loco had already passed. I came around the corner and couldn't see the train - even though my headlights were working fine. No reflectors on the sides of the cars back in 1992. If it weren't for the fact that I realized that I saw the street lamp on the other side of the crossing flicker, I'd have been grafitti on a box car.

yes, I know this is a very old thread. my apologies for bumping up a thread that's 8 years old...

However, I just saw the video in question recently and can really figure out why the semi driver was "stupid" ???

I see the conductor was holding a red flag, but she made no gesture for the truck to stop. Other car crossed before the truck.(when the gates opened)

Come to think of it, why did the Amtrak train come to a complete stop before the crossing in the first place? The gates in both directions appear to be working fine?

ToniCounter said:

yes, I know this is a very old thread. my apologies for bumping up a thread that's 8 years old...

However, I just saw the video in question recently and can really figure out why the semi driver was "stupid" ???

I see the conductor was holding a red flag, but she made no gesture for the truck to stop. Other car crossed before the truck.(when the gates opened)

Come to think of it, why did the Amtrak train come to a complete stop before the crossing in the first place? The gates in both directions appear to be working fine?

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The crossing may have been previously reported as malfunctioning. Once it is reported, the crossing must be considered failed and will be protected until a qualified personnel confirms the crossing is working as intended.

Generally speaking, it's a lot easier for the conductor to get off of the train if it isn't moving.

Also generally speaking, if I'm approaching railroad tracks, see someone in a railroad uniform standing in my lane holding a red flag, I'm probably going to stop and see what the deal is.

Maybe I'm just crazy, though.

I'll address some of the questions being raised.

Why didn't the conductor stop that truck? Simple answer he or she was flagging the crossing. Should the train hit the truck. The truck driver is at fault. But she was also not going to get run over by that thing which is GCOR rule 1.1.1 if in any doubt take the safest course.





The following attachments show the most recent version of GCOR and what to do in a crossing failure.

GCOR is General Code of Operating Rules used by railroads in the western parts of the US. I'm a NORAC fan myself.

I should add that real conductors get on and off moving equipment.

The Word from where the rubber meets the road! Thanks Steve!

Acela150 said:

I should add that real conductors get on and off moving equipment.

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Wow great advise. I wonder how many conductors have been killed or maimed get on or off of moving equipment.

It's a safety rule written in blood. Don't you want to go home after your work day?

Acela150 said:

I'll address some of the questions being raised.

Why didn't the conductor stop that truck? Simple answer he or she was flagging the crossing.

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she was only holding the red flag in her arm, without waving or making any gesture to indicate to anybody that she wanted them to stop. to most car and semi drivers, they'll stop if there was an police officer in uniform or worker in reflective vests. the conductor was in Amtrak clothing? the driver probably saw the gates open and the other driver crossing, so he moved on... ?

The conductor not wearing a reflective vest was almost certainly a work rule violation.

I do not see anything wrong at all.

The Conductor was protecting the crossing. The train was stopped. The Conductor was not telling the truck to stop. (The flag was not raised.) The train did not start moving until after the truck went thru the crossing. (Maybe as it was, but remember that unlike a car a train does not go from 0 to 60 in 6.8 seconds!)

So what is the problem? :huh:

VentureForth said:

Dutchrailnut said:

There is no need to flag for entire train, flagging a crossing means a crew member or recognizable railroad employee will stop traffic untill engine occupies the crossing.

as for rest of train thats what headlights on cars are for, and lately railroads have about 7 yellow reflectors on each freight car.

Flagging can not prevent stupidity.

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I almost ran into a train in the middle of the night at a non-lighted crossing. It was in the woods and the loco had already passed. I came around the corner and couldn't see the train - even though my headlights were working fine. No reflectors on the sides of the cars back in 1992. If it weren't for the fact that I realized that I saw the street lamp on the other side of the crossing flicker, I'd have been grafitti on a box car.

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A textbook example of this sort of un-lit crossing was in northeastern Minnesota, where State Hwy 2 crossed the LTV Mining rail line. I was fortunate one night to see the flicker of light between the cars before I stopped. I knew the crossing was there, but I always slowed down no matter if there was a train there or not. The State of MN re-built the road about a decade ago so that there no longer is an at-grade crossing there -- the highway uses a bridge across the line. I wonder how many folks died colliding with a train there late at night.

When I first came across this particular RR crossing, I found it humorous when the warning sign on the highway was 10 feet tall.

WICT106 said:

A textbook example of this sort of un-lit crossing was in northeastern Minnesota, where State Hwy 2 crossed the Erie Mining rail line. I was fortunate one night to see the flicker of light between the cars before I stopped. I knew the crossing was there, but I always slowed down no matter if there was a train there or not. The State of MN re-built the road about a decade ago so that there no longer is an at-grade crossing there -- the highway uses a bridge across the line. I wonder how many folks died colliding with a train there late at night.


When I first came across this particular RR crossing, I found it humorous when the warning sign on the highway was 10 feet tall.

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when you guys say un-lit crossing.. do you mean there's no signal and no gate?

is there even a sign that says "Railroad Crossing" or something?

can you give me the location so I can look at it on Google Maps street view?

Thanks!

ToniCounter said:

WICT106 said:

A textbook example of this sort of un-lit crossing was in northeastern Minnesota, where State Hwy 2 crossed the Erie Mining rail line. I was fortunate one night to see the flicker of light between the cars before I stopped. I knew the crossing was there, but I always slowed down no matter if there was a train there or not. The State of MN re-built the road about a decade ago so that there no longer is an at-grade crossing there -- the highway uses a bridge across the line. I wonder how many folks died colliding with a train there late at night.

When I first came across this particular RR crossing, I found it humorous when the warning sign on the highway was 10 feet tall.

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when you guys say un-lit crossing.. do you mean there's no signal and no gate?

is there even a sign that says "Railroad Crossing" or something?

can you give me the location so I can look at it on Google Maps street view?

Thanks!

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Probably just the ?cross bucks? RR sign. I'm sure there are a lot of small roads across the country that don't have lights & gates.

Just-Thinking-51 said:

Acela150 said:

I should add that real conductors get on and off moving equipment.

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Wow great advise. I wonder how many conductors have been killed or maimed get on or off of moving equipment.

It's a safety rule written in blood. Don't you want to go home after your work day?

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No.. I just did almost everyday for a month and was a conductor for NS... PLEASE find the NS rule that says I can't mount moving equipment.. Cause you won't.. I've done it hundreds of times. You'll see a recommended speed that you shouldn't do it.. Otherwise don't tell me that Real Railroaders don't mount moving equipment.. You have no experience working for any railroad correct??

PRR 60 said:

The conductor not wearing a reflective vest was almost certainly a work rule violation.

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Negative.. Only freight carriers are mandated to wear vests.. I'm pretty sure she isn't working freight..

the_traveler said:

I do not see anything wrong at all.

The Conductor was protecting the crossing. The train was stopped. The Conductor was not telling the truck to stop. (The flag was not raised.) The train did not start moving until after the truck went thru the crossing. (Maybe as it was, but remember that unlike a car a train does not go from 0 to 60 in 6.8 seconds!)

So what is the problem? :huh:

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Thank you Dave!!!

Acela150 said:

PLEASE find the NS rule that says I can't mount moving equipment.. Cause you won't..

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your reply reminds me of this scene from "A Few Good Men"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgIBG8q1Gjc

Just-Thinking-51 said:

Acela150 said:

I should add that real conductors get on and off moving equipment.

Click to expand...

Wow great advise. I wonder how many conductors have been killed or maimed get on or off of moving equipment.It's a safety rule written in blood. Don't you want to go home after your work day?

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Real conductors get on and off moving equipment is an old timer saying these days but years ago conductors were trained to get on and off moving equipment and expected too. Then they change the rule. Hard to get over old habits. So if no one is looking......[emoji41]

the_traveler said:

I do not see anything wrong at all.

The Conductor was protecting the crossing. The train was stopped. The Conductor was not telling the truck to stop. (The flag was not raised.) The train did not start moving until after the truck went thru the crossing. (Maybe as it was, but remember that unlike a car a train does not go from 0 to 60 in 6.8 seconds!)

So what is the problem? :huh:

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I didn't see any problem.

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