29 replies to this topic

[wayman]

I think this is my most comprehensive post about the bucket system I've ever done. I should save it for future reference...after rewriting it for readability, of course! Anyone have any corrections or suggestions?

Excellent and informative! Thanks, Jackal!

Also, the railfare is the component that qualifies for the AAA, NARP, SA, VA, etc. discount. The accommodation charge is not discounted by these programs.[/i]

Here's one thing that was slightly ambiguous (to me). I know that when purchasing a coach ticket, AAA knocks off 10%, and when purchasing a sleeper, AAA does not apply to that. And when purchasing a sleeper, the "railfare" component is already "sort of discounted" in that you get the lowest bucket. But is that lowest-bucket railfare component of your railfare+sleeper cost then further discounted by AAA?

In your "coach is $300 high-bucket, roomettes are $300 low-bucket, and low-bucket coach fare happens to be $150" example scenario, booking for two passengers without discount in coach costs $600 (2x$300) and in roomette costs $600 (2x$150+$300). If they book with AAA, booking coach costs $540 (2x$270). Does booking the roomette cost them $570 (2x$135+$300) or $600 (you get dropped to low-bucket coach, but that's it)?

Thanks again.

Oh, and a second question: what happens in an on-board upgrade when one has already paid a high-bucket coach fare?

Say I paid the $300 coach fare at the last minute, and roomettes were high-bucket too so I didn't take one. Now I'm on-board, holding a $300 coach ticket (already paid for) and I find there's an available roomette which would cost only $300 (low-bucket on-board). Does that mean "$300 for the roomette" or "you'd get $150 back for your railfare to knock you to low-bucket, and then $300 for the roomette, so only a $150 upgrade charge"? I'm assuming it's the full low-bucket cost of the roomette ($300) regardless of your railfare bucket (what you already paid for railfare is now a "sunk cost" and completely irrelevant), just because I've never had a conductor ask to look at my ticket stub (which would indicate in a code which bucket I paid) before quoting an upgrade price. Worth noting that somewhere in the definitive response, if it's true.

Edited by wayman, 18 June 2008 - 10:27 AM.

[p&sr]

Here's one thing that was slightly ambiguous (to me). I know that when purchasing a coach ticket, AAA knocks off 10%, and when purchasing a sleeper, AAA does not apply to that. And when purchasing a sleeper, the "railfare" component is already "sort of discounted" in that you get the lowest bucket. But is that lowest-bucket railfare component of your railfare+sleeper cost then further discounted by AAA?

The Railfare Component gets a 10% discount for AAA, with or without an Accommodations Upgrade.

Example, CHI --> EMY Oct 18: coach fare is $145 ($130.50 for AAA).
Family Bedroom adds $1117. Total is $1262 ($1247.50 for AAA).

[jackal]

I think this is my most comprehensive post about the bucket system I've ever done. I should save it for future reference...after rewriting it for readability, of course! Anyone have any corrections or suggestions?

Excellent and informative! Thanks, Jackal!

Also, the railfare is the component that qualifies for the AAA, NARP, SA, VA, etc. discount. The accommodation charge is not discounted by these programs.[/i]

Here's one thing that was slightly ambiguous (to me). I know that when purchasing a coach ticket, AAA knocks off 10%, and when purchasing a sleeper, AAA does not apply to that. And when purchasing a sleeper, the "railfare" component is already "sort of discounted" in that you get the lowest bucket. But is that lowest-bucket railfare component of your railfare+sleeper cost then further discounted by AAA?

In your "coach is $300 high-bucket, roomettes are $300 low-bucket, and low-bucket coach fare happens to be $150" example scenario, booking for two passengers without discount in coach costs $600 (2x$300) and in roomette costs $600 (2x$150+$300). If they book with AAA, booking coach costs $540 (2x$270). Does booking the roomette cost them $570 (2x$135+$300) or $600 (you get dropped to low-bucket coach, but that's it)?

Thanks again.

Oh, and a second question: what happens in an on-board upgrade when one has already paid a high-bucket coach fare?

Say I paid the $300 coach fare at the last minute, and roomettes were high-bucket too so I didn't take one. Now I'm on-board, holding a $300 coach ticket (already paid for) and I find there's an available roomette which would cost only $300 (low-bucket on-board). Does that mean "$300 for the roomette" or "you'd get $150 back for your railfare to knock you to low-bucket, and then $300 for the roomette, so only a $150 upgrade charge"? I'm assuming it's the full low-bucket cost of the roomette ($300) regardless of your railfare bucket (what you already paid for railfare is now a "sunk cost" and completely irrelevant), just because I've never had a conductor ask to look at my ticket stub (which would indicate in a code which bucket I paid) before quoting an upgrade price. Worth noting that somewhere in the definitive response, if it's true.

P&SR answered your first question--you get low-bucket coach minus 10% plus a non-discounted accommodation charge.

As to your second one--I don't know! Maybe someone around here does...oh, Aaaaalaaaannn...

[AlanB]

Say I paid the $300 coach fare at the last minute, and roomettes were high-bucket too so I didn't take one. Now I'm on-board, holding a $300 coach ticket (already paid for) and I find there's an available roomette which would cost only $300 (low-bucket on-board). Does that mean "$300 for the roomette" or "you'd get $150 back for your railfare to knock you to low-bucket, and then $300 for the roomette, so only a $150 upgrade charge"? I'm assuming it's the full low-bucket cost of the roomette ($300) regardless of your railfare bucket (what you already paid for railfare is now a "sunk cost" and completely irrelevant), just because I've never had a conductor ask to look at my ticket stub (which would indicate in a code which bucket I paid) before quoting an upgrade price. Worth noting that somewhere in the definitive response, if it's true.

The price that the conductor gets from space control will reflect the difference between the low bucket price of the sleeper minus any adjustment if needed for the dropping of the rail fare to the low bucket level AFAIK. So yes, in the above example where low bucket for a seat was $150, but you paid a high bucket of $300, you would then in effect get a $150 credit towards whatever the lowbucket price of the sleeper was.

As for the conductor looking at your stub to see what bucket you're in for the seat, it doesn't matter. Space control would have that info at their fingertips. The conductor only needs to read them your name and reservation number, they take over from there and pull up whatever info they might need in the computer.

[wayman]

The price that the conductor gets from space control will reflect the difference between the low bucket price of the sleeper minus any adjustment if needed for the dropping of the rail fare to the low bucket level AFAIK. So yes, in the above example where low bucket for a seat was $150, but you paid a high bucket of $300, you would then in effect get a $150 credit towards whatever the lowbucket price of the sleeper was.

As for the conductor looking at your stub to see what bucket you're in for the seat, it doesn't matter. Space control would have that info at their fingertips. The conductor only needs to read them your name and reservation number, they take over from there and pull up whatever info they might need in the computer.

Oh... so I should have pursued the upgrade on the EB further, I guess. What happened was, I met the conductor in the lounge and asked him what it would cost, and he consulted a printed book (looking up the city pair) and quoted me a number--whatever it said low-bucket roomette was, I imagine. He didn't look at my ticket, and he didn't call space control. I guess if I'd said "great, I'll do it!" he would have called in and then, maybe, found out from space control that my upgrade would be cheaper than the quote because my coach railfare would be reduced.

So... for the record, my PDX-CHI ticket stub shows my class code was YA, which is one end of the scale (YA, YB, YD, YG). But I forget which order that goes in, low-high or high-low. Which bucket did I have? (I'm guessing it was low already, since my total fare PDX-CHI-WAS-PHL was only $260. Which makes me feel better, because if I'd had a high-bucket coach railfare, the roomette upgrade quoted ($200) might've been a steal!)

(I didn't consider $200 a steal because I didn't ask until after the first night, and was told to check back with the conductor after breakfast, after which I'd only have one night and four meals of benefit. Given that I figured I'd spend almost all of my time in the Sightseer either way--so I could see out both sides--I didn't count "having a nice place to sit during the day" as a major benefit.)

[Chessie Hokie]

P&SR answered your first question--you get low-bucket coach minus 10% plus a non-discounted accommodation charge.

The discount is also, I presume, still subject to the 3-day advance purchase limitation?

[puck71]

That's why we always say around here to book early, since the fares can only go up!

That's what I thought too, and I booked on that principle. I could leave on either Saturday or Sunday, and the fare for Saturday was $316 and for Sunday was $243 (FAR->SEA in early August). The return trips were also $243. I booked the Sunday departure since it was so much cheaper, but then a couple days later I checked again and Saturday was down to $243 also! So I quick cancelled my first one and re-booked for Saturday to give myself an extra day. Now it's back to $316 for Saturday. I can only assume it's hovering around the bucket tipping point and a couple people cancelled, but still it should be said that it's possible for prices to go down.

[jackal]

That's why we always say around here to book early, since the fares can only go up!

That's what I thought too, and I booked on that principle. I could leave on either Saturday or Sunday, and the fare for Saturday was $316 and for Sunday was $243 (FAR->SEA in early August). The return trips were also $243. I booked the Sunday departure since it was so much cheaper, but then a couple days later I checked again and Saturday was down to $243 also! So I quick cancelled my first one and re-booked for Saturday to give myself an extra day. Now it's back to $316 for Saturday. I can only assume it's hovering around the bucket tipping point and a couple people cancelled, but still it should be said that it's possible for prices to go down.

Yes, possible but extremely rare...you did just catch it at the perfect time! However, your booking illustrates the best thing--because Amtrak tickets are [nearly] always refundable, you can always cancel and rebook with no penalty!

(Actually, it wasn't tipping between the buckets--when someone cancels a reservation, whatever fare bucket they booked goes back into sellable inventory. So if tickets are currently selling for bucket #3 but someone who booked at low bucket (#1) cancels two seats, then two seats will be sold at the #1 price. After those two sell, then the following seats are sold at bucket #3.)

[D.P. Roberts]

I think the system updates pretty quickly. On my recent trip on the CS, a passenger was supposed to get on in Emeryville, & didn't show. By the next stop (Oakland), it was reported as available. Someone had it booked by Salinas, just two stops later. So, it's not just onboard upgrades - if someone moves from a roomette to a bedroom, the roomette could easily be sold to someone who hasn't gotten on the train yet.

[rrdude]

Your post is over a year old, but still INVALUABLE info for me. I guess I "knew that" about paying the low bucket coach, if you booked sleepers, but had TOTALLY forgot it. THANKS.