26 replies to this topic

[AlanB]

In light of a few recent postings on the forums, let me take a moment and remind all our users about copyright issues.

As you may have already noticed, when many of our members including myself quote articles in copyrighted publications (newspapers, journals, etc.) we only quote a paragraph or two, just enough so the subject is clear, and provide a link to the original article.

This is necessary to comply with copyright laws, and complying with copyright laws is necessary for this Bulletin Board to continue to exist.

Please follow our lead and not quote more of a copyrighted article than is necessary -- and please always provide a link to the original article.

Thanks for helping to keep this board a success.

[AlanB]

I just want to take a moment and remind everyone of the copyright issues associated with posting news stories. I've been a bit lax of late at enforcing this, but it is important that everyone remember that one can't just repost entire news stories.

So please take care to follow the above guidelines when you are dealing with copyrighted works. Thanks.

[MrFSS]

I just want to take a moment and remind everyone of the copyright issues associated with posting news stories. I've been a bit lax of late at enforcing this, but it is important that everyone remember that one can't just repost entire news stories.

So please take care to follow the above guidelines when you are dealing with copyrighted works. Thanks.

I did one recently, but obtained the author's permission to quote the entire article. Trust that is OK???

[AlanB]

I just want to take a moment and remind everyone of the copyright issues associated with posting news stories. I've been a bit lax of late at enforcing this, but it is important that everyone remember that one can't just repost entire news stories.

So please take care to follow the above guidelines when you are dealing with copyrighted works. Thanks.

I did one recently, but obtained the author's permission to quote the entire article. Trust that is OK???

Yup, that's fine. I noticed at that time that you had mentioned that you had permission to repost it.

[George Harris]

My question would be, where do things like press releases fit in? For example, I copied in about 3/4 of the press release from Missouri DOT on teh possible St. Louis to Springfield service, and did include the link. I would assume that a press release by definition is acceptable to freely reprint, but maybe i am missing something here.

George

[Sam Damon]

My take on press releases is that they are fair game to post verbatim.

That's what the writers want you to do, anyway.

Just don't edit them, and I think any copyright issues which might come up, go away.

[AmtrakWPK]

As far as copyright is concerned I'd have to agree with that. Especially as they generally include the word "release".
Even so, from a bandwidth and storage point of view for the Board, if it is a long document, I personally would still favor a short summary, plus a viable link to the original document, unless you have to jump through six hoops or pay a fee to access the original (not generally the case with a press release....) . That also insulates you, and us, from having any goofs in the copy-and-paste process, which the author or copyright holder would probably be irritated about. And for things like the continual pasting of entire long newsletters one after the other in a topic instead of just the current one or perhaps the most recent couple of them, if you posted a short summary and a link, you wouldn't have the current situation where the resulting topic ends up being three miles long and take 15 second just to page down to the current newsletter release. Of course, if the document isn't available on the publishing party's web site, that doesn't work either.

[AlanB]

First, I agree with what has been said regarding press releases. I see no reason that they cannot be posted in their entirety.

Next, although Anthony could certainly answer this question better since he has access to the stats on the server, I don't believe that bandwidth or storage capacity is of any concern here. The cost of it is of some concern, which is why we now have the ads at the top of the page. But the actual posting of press releases and long things like for example the URPA news letter takes so little space and bandwidth as to be inconsequential. One picture would take more space and bandwidth than the entire URPA topic does right now; text simply isn't a huge commodity.

As for the comments about how long some topics are concerned, I have a few comments. First, if one is looking for the most recent post, then just click that little yellow square next to the title of the topic when you're on the topic list page and it will take you directly to the last "unread by you" post with no need to page down. One can also hit the "end" key on your keyboard to scroll directly down to the bottom of the page with one keystroke, this one assumes that you are not using a MAC. Although I suspect that there is a similar car on a MAC, but I'm not positive. Finally one can also click on the words "last post by:" at the end of the line to be taken to the very last post. I hope that helps a bit.

Second, if enough people are bothered by long topics like the URPA topic, I can shorten the pages by reducing the number of posts per page. It is currently at 20, but we could consider limiting it to 10 or 15 posts per page if enough people see long posts as a problem.

Ps. Hitting the "home" key will bring you back to the top of the topic with one keystroke.

[Sam Damon]

Actually, under Mac OS X, the Gecko-based browser Camino uses the "home" and "end" keys on a Mac keyboard. So I can verify that it works the same under Mac. Haven't used Safari lately though, so I can't speak to that browser.

[badgermhm]

Let me add two quick points to this discussion, even though it's been nearly a year since the last post on this topic (I just joined today).

In addition to the valid points already made about it being OK to quote news releases in their entirety, I would add that applies particularly to news releases from governmental agencies. In the example given in a previous message, a Missouri Department of Transportation news release was mentioned. Although my experience as a governmental public information director in state government was limited to Wisconsin, I always regarded all material published by any governmental agency for public dissemination as available to the public for quoting.

We sometimes considered copyrighting a few particular publications of ours (we never did copyright, as near as I recall), but that would have been solely to keep another organization, public or private, from reprinting it as their own without any credit to us as the original source or crediting us while changing some of the text or illustrations or implying some sort of an affiliation between them and us that we did not agree existed. The purpose, thus, was public protection by insuring we maintained control over material prepared at cost to the taxpayers.

My other point is that, when quoting only a portion of a new story and adding a link, that link may expire very quickly (being replaced with another) or the material itself will be removed and no longer will be available online. Thus, you may wish to make sure the portion you quote contains information you want to keep available online. You also may wish to keep a copy of the original material saved to your computer, for future reference in case either of the above happens and you need to access the material.

[AmtrakWPK]

Good points, badgermhm, and thanks for the additional viewpoint. And WELCOME to the board!!

[JobMatchNow]

That is a good idea I have noticed lately as well

[mercedeslove]

As a journalism student, I don't see any issues with using quotes and linking an article. As long as it's stated who wrote it, when, and what paper or source, and it's no more than the lead sentence in the article.

I have done it on many forums and used that format and there hasn't been any issues.

I am working on an article for my college's newspaper about amtrak, and once it is finished I plan on using that format and then linking it to the page. All though since our paper has limited online space and the only keep articles up for two weeks I might just do the full here. It's my work so it's not much of a copyright issues for me.

[amtrakwolverine]

its that this forum is over paranoid when it comes to copyright. your not posting the whole artice just parts of it. your giving credit to the source and were not getting any money for it. whats the big deal. alot of forums post more then 1 or 2 lines.

[jackal]

As a journalism student, I don't see any issues with using quotes and linking an article. As long as it's stated who wrote it, when, and what paper or source, and it's no more than the lead sentence in the article.

I have done it on many forums and used that format and there hasn't been any issues.

I am working on an article for my college's newspaper about amtrak, and once it is finished I plan on using that format and then linking it to the page. All though since our paper has limited online space and the only keep articles up for two weeks I might just do the full here. It's my work so it's not much of a copyright issues for me.

I didn't see the recent example that re-instigated this discussion until after MrFSS edited it, but I don't think anyone objects to posting the lede. In fact, AlanB's original post in this thread states that it is acceptable to "quote a paragraph or two." I suspect Rail Freak had quoted the article in its entirety.

Also, as to your last point, you'd need to look at your terms of employment with your school paper, but in general, an article written by a newspaper reporter for that newspaper and on that newspaper's paid time are the intellectual property of that newspaper. So to be sure, I'd get the paper's written permission to post it here (I doubt it'd be a problem at a school paper).

If you're a freelancer, it's probably less of an issue, but you'd need to look at the contract there, too--you may be selling the rights to the article in exchange for your pay. (More likely, though, you'd just be granting the paper an irrevocable license to use the work in any way they see fit or even a more limited license while retaining the ownership rights to the article itself.)

Edited by jackal, 08 March 2009 - 01:54 AM.

[Long Train Runnin']

alot of forums post more then 1 or 2 lines.

Right and alan said we could post one or two paragraphs

[MrFSS]

I didn't see the recent example that re-instigated this discussion until after MrFSS edited it, but I don't think anyone objects to posting the lede. In fact, AlanB's original post in this thread states that it is acceptable to "quote a paragraph or two." I suspect Rail Freak had quoted the article in its entirety.

He had quoted the entire article. I left the link and the 1st paragraph.

[Joel N. Weber II]

In addition to the valid points already made about it being OK to quote news releases in their entirety, I would add that applies particularly to news releases from governmental agencies. In the example given in a previous message, a Missouri Department of Transportation news release was mentioned. Although my experience as a governmental public information director in state government was limited to Wisconsin, I always regarded all material published by any governmental agency for public dissemination as available to the public for quoting.

We sometimes considered copyrighting a few particular publications of ours (we never did copyright, as near as I recall), but that would have been solely to keep another organization, public or private, from reprinting it as their own without any credit to us as the original source or crediting us while changing some of the text or illustrations or implying some sort of an affiliation between them and us that we did not agree existed. The purpose, thus, was public protection by insuring we maintained control over material prepared at cost to the taxpayers.

I thought it was the case that works made by federal government employees while they are doing their job are always public domain. (Works done by contractors the federal govenrment hires, or by state goverments, though, are not necessarily public domain AFAIK.)

I also thought it was the case that under the Berne Convention, works produced in the last few decades that might fall under copyright law are copyrighted by default.

[jis]

I also thought it was the case that under the Berne Convention, works produced in the last few decades that might fall under copyright law are copyrighted by default.

That is correct. Until a grant of an exclusive copyright license to someone else is made explicitly giving up the original creator's rights the copyright remains the creators. It is more typical to grant non-exclusive copyright licenses thus retaining ones own copyright while allowing someone else to do things with the material as spelled out in the said non-exclusive copyright license. Additional license terms may pertain to right to grant further rights to others, right to do derivative works and publish them etc. etc.

[Navy 118]

I also thought it was the case that under the Berne Convention, works produced in the last few decades that might fall under copyright law are copyrighted by default.

That is correct. Until a grant of an exclusive copyright license to someone else is made explicitly giving up the original creator's rights the copyright remains the creators. It is more typical to grant non-exclusive copyright licenses thus retaining ones own copyright while allowing someone else to do things with the material as spelled out in the said non-exclusive copyright license. Additional license terms may pertain to right to grant further rights to others, right to do derivative works and publish them etc. etc.

However the work maybe cited and limited reproduction occur based on the "fair use" clause.