http://fox6now.com/2012/03/14/plan-to-replace-amtrak-trains-with-talgo-is-mothballed/
This just ruined my day.
This just ruined my day.
Those cheesehead Republicans are amazing. If Walker had allowed the Madison extension to proceed, the cost of the maintenance base would have been covered by the federal grant. Now, the state will be sued by Talgo for millions of dollars. . The train sets will be sold to Washington and Oregon (like some so many people on railfan sites have advocated) and the Hiawathas will be stuck with Horizons forever since the forward looking states that are buying new bi-levels won't allow them to be used in Wisconsin. Brilliant job, guys.http://fox6now.com/2012/03/14/plan-to-replace-amtrak-trains-with-talgo-is-mothballed/
This just ruined my day.
This is not a total surprise. I have not been following the recent news in Wisconsin that closely, but this has been coming for a while. WI went ahead and brought the Talgos on their own initiative without any coordination with the other Midwest states or looking at the regional picture. The Talgos offered faster trip times between Milwaukee and Madison, so the state DOT with a lot of political involvement because the Talgos would be built in WI, settled on the Talgos. The original plan, IIRC, was for WI to buy at least 2 more Talgos with the federal funding (or was it 3 to 4 additional Talgos?), enough to support service on the Chicago to Milwaukee to Madison corridor.Those cheesehead Republicans are amazing. If Walker had allowed the Madison extension to proceed, the cost of the maintenance base would have been covered by the federal grant. Now, the state will be sued by Talgo for millions of dollars. . The train sets will be sold to Washington and Oregon (like some so many people on railfan sites have advocated) and the Hiawathas will be stuck with Horizons forever since the forward looking states that are buying new bi-levels won't allow them to be used in Wisconsin. Brilliant job, guys.
May 8 and/or June 5When Will the Voters in Wisconsin (and Other States too!) Catch on to these Charlatans!!
Um, I think Wisconsinites wanted these charlatans in power all along. Otherwise why would they have voted for them in the first place? Can't blame the politicians without blaming the voters who put them there. :excl:Alice in Wonderland!!! "Things get Curiouser and Curiouser!" Sort of Reminds one of Rome where Emperor Nero Fiddled while Rome Burned!! Damn Politicians!! When Will the Voters in Wisonsin (and Other States too!) Catch on to these Charlatans!!
No it wouldn't. They need a dedicated maintenance facility wherever they run. Illinois has no intention on building one for Talgo.Does it make sense for the State of Illinois to lease them for the short term?
Just to be clear, Governor Walker never cancelled the MKE-MSN extension.and Walker (hastilly cancelling the MKE-MSN extension).
The projected cost of the Talgo maintenance facility is $55 to $63 million! Which is a LOT for a maintenance facility for TWO trainsets. Since this a fixed length consist, I guess it must have a lift for the entire consist. If Illinois or anyone else other than WA or OR were to purchase the Talgos, they would have make a hefty investment in a maintenance facility.Does it make sense for the State of Illinois to lease them for the short term? Perhaps the Quincy line or the Carbonedale line? I'm not sure how many train sets those require, but I just hate to see perfectly good equipment be wasted, when they could be out collecting revenue. This, when Amtrak is still short equipment and seeing how the bi-levels are still a few years away for the Midwest.
If anything, these sets need to be used somewhere. I hope Talgo is able to sue the State of Wisconsin. Not that I wish Wisconsin taxpayers anymore burden from Gov. Walkers shenanigans of this whole train deal.
Interesting idea. I did a google search and came across articles on proposals for a Seattle-Portland-Boise ID corridor service. Of course, crossing 3 states makes it more difficult to pull off.A random thought.... Washington State could try to negotiate with BNSF to run a TALGO service from Seattle to Spokane, perhaps over Stampede Pass in the meantime?
Oh I dunno. If it does not involve any federal money things could move quite quickly. A year or two max.If a leading state politician were to propose acquiring the WI Talgos to provide service from Seattle to Spokane or Boise, there would have to be feasibility studies, then engineering and design studies, multiple cycles of political & public debate, then agreements reached with BNSF if they would be willing to go along, then implementation and start-up efforts before Seattle to Spokane service might begin. How many years would that take?
I like these plans, and wish that this could have happend. However, it's far too late. In terms of California's cars, I know this is off-topic, but I was wondering what will be used for the Coast Daylight. The only current road(rail)block in the way of getting this train started is lack of two-story eqipment, which Caltrans much prefers over single-level. In the plans Caltrans and Illinois put out on the bi-level order, why were cars for the Coast Daylight not included in the order? What is Caltrans planning on using?WI spent $72 million on the 2 Talgo sets. If that money had instead been put into a secure place so Walker & the new legislature would be forced to leave it alone. While an agreement with IL was signed to use the funding to buy new cars once IL had settled on what car types to buy with the CHI-STL corridor award, the $72 million could have been applied to buy 16 bi-level corridor cars at the placeholder price of $4.5 million each (which includes spare parts and acquisition costs). The 16 bi-levels could have been split into 2 consists of 6 cars each for the Hiawatha service with 4 cars for the general fleet pool. Would have made for a total order of 104 bi-level cars for the Midwest along the 42 for California. Cluster[bleep] indeed.Does it make sense for the State of Illinois to lease them for the short term? Perhaps the Quincy line or the Carbonedale line? I'm not sure how many train sets those require, but I just hate to see perfectly good equipment be wasted, when they could be out collecting revenue. This, when Amtrak is still short equipment and seeing how the bi-levels are still a few years away for the Midwest.
If anything, these sets need to be used somewhere. I hope Talgo is able to sue the State of Wisconsin. Not that I wish Wisconsin taxpayers anymore burden from Gov. Walkers shenanigans of this whole train deal.
The whole point is the cost of a Talgo maintenance facility is simply too steep to be viable for almost anyone who can buy only 2 Talgo trainsets. And having only 2 trainsets, if both are used each day, means no reserve capacity unless Amtrak is willing to provide Horizons on short notice. These are effectively orphan trainsets for use on any CHI based corridor, unless the buyer is willing to lay out additional funds to start up a Talgo production facility (again). If there were 4-5 new Talgo trainsets for sale, that might be a different matter.I think that the Talgos should be used on any one of these routes:
SEA-SPK
SEA-YVR (Vancouver)
CHI-MSP
...
Don't count on a Coast Daylight.I like these plans, and wish that this could have happend. However, it's far too late. In terms of California's cars, I know this is off-topic, but I was wondering what will be used for the Coast Daylight. The only current road(rail)block in the way of getting this train started is lack of two-story eqipment, which Caltrans much prefers over single-level. In the plans Caltrans and Illinois put out on the bi-level order, why were cars for the Coast Daylight not included in the order? What is Caltrans planning on using?
True, federal money while useful, does slow the decision and engineering review process down by years. The Virginia Norfolk extension is moving along at a rapid pace compared to other projects. If a viable Seattle to Spokane service could be started without spending a lot on track upgrades, would be neat to see new service in just a year or two. An example of where service could be started (or restored depending on your timeframe) because of the LD train keeping passenger service between the cities alive.Oh I dunno. If it does not involve any federal money things could move quite quickly. A year or two max.If a leading state politician were to propose acquiring the WI Talgos to provide service from Seattle to Spokane or Boise, there would have to be feasibility studies, then engineering and design studies, multiple cycles of political & public debate, then agreements reached with BNSF if they would be willing to go along, then implementation and start-up efforts before Seattle to Spokane service might begin. How many years would that take?
True, federal money while useful, does slow the decision and engineering review process down by years. The Virginia Norfolk extension is moving along at a rapid pace compared to other projects. If a viable Seattle to Spokane service could be started without spending a lot on track upgrades, would be neat to see new service in just a year or two. An example of where service could be started (or restored depending on your timeframe) because of the LD train keeping passenger service between the cities alive.Oh I dunno. If it does not involve any federal money things could move quite quickly. A year or two max.If a leading state politician were to propose acquiring the WI Talgos to provide service from Seattle to Spokane or Boise, there would have to be feasibility studies, then engineering and design studies, multiple cycles of political & public debate, then agreements reached with BNSF if they would be willing to go along, then implementation and start-up efforts before Seattle to Spokane service might begin. How many years would that take?
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