Price of US train travel

[Stickershock]

After returning from Europe, I am so saddened by the exorbitant cost of rail travel in the US. I hate air travel, as it is just so uncomfortable. But looking at the prices of riding the rails (and taking much longer), it is really the only way to travel in the US. What is wrong with this country?

 

[Jeremy]

You just said it: the USA is much bigger than Europe and the population density, except in certain places such as the NE corridor, is much lower. Hard to run passenger rail without passengers. Also remember that rail travel in Europe typically receives government subsidies.

 

[Rail Freak]

From what I see from my sleeper windows, it's a beautiful country! For a Motel on wheels, all meals included & traveling the country for around $200 a day. Not bad in my opinion! As for me, I wouldnt mind if it was a little slower !!!

RF

 

[MrFSS]

Also remember that rail travel in Europe typically receives government subsidies.

And so it does in the US - very heavily.

 

[the_traveler]

The price of the rail ticket depends is based on supply and demand. But unlike airlines, it is based on actual seats sold, not how many days in advance you buy it.

I have been on flights years ago where I paid like $100. Someone could walk up to the counter "because I have to take this flight today" and pay $1,000! When I get to the plane, it was more then 75% EMPTY! If that were a train, it may still have been $100!

Because of the low fares that airlines charge, that is part of the reason they lose Millions and Millions of dollars every year! Do you really think they can fly you from JFK to LAX for $99, $79 or $39? :huh: As much as I hate the hassles of flying, I flew from PVD to PDX last summer - for $135 one way! Do you really think the airlines make money at that fare flying coast to coast? :huh:

 

[transit54]

After returning from Europe, I am so saddened by the exorbitant cost of rail travel in the US. I hate air travel, as it is just so uncomfortable. But looking at the prices of riding the rails (and taking much longer), it is really the only way to travel in the US. What is wrong with this country?

Is it really that much more expensive? I don't exactly recall European HSR being cheap. The cheapest way to get around is typically a carrier like EasyJet or RyanAir. Sure, I'll pay to take the train, but on most of the services I've ridden on (Eurostar, Thalys, most of various railway companies in Switzerland) the prices were pretty comparable to Amtrak corridor trains.

 

[TVRM610]

After returning from Europe, I am so saddened by the exorbitant cost of rail travel in the US. I hate air travel, as it is just so uncomfortable. But looking at the prices of riding the rails (and taking much longer), it is really the only way to travel in the US. What is wrong with this country?

I agree that the USA can improve rail travel compared to Europe etc. But I do not agree with your general statement. You can't look at the most expensive Amtrak route and the cheapest Airline Route and do an accurate comparison. As for taking longer... well you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I find that most of the time airlines and Amtrak are comparatively priced, sometimes amtrak is cheaper than air, sometimes vice versa, but it is generally about even. While the airplane gets you there faster most of the time, there are several conveniences to train travel including much larger and more comfortable seats. The options of walking to the diner and lounge are also huge advantages. Depending on the route, the train can also get you there in a comparable time if you include getting to the airport, checking luggage, going through security etc. Again it depends on the route.

Ultimately I think its unfair to say the train is always more expensive and always takes longer. I'm hoping for more and faster service in the coming years... but I think Amtrak is a pretty serviceable system as is.

 

[jis]

Is it really that much more expensive? I don't exactly recall European HSR being cheap. The cheapest way to get around is typically a carrier like EasyJet or RyanAir. Sure, I'll pay to take the train, but on most of the services I've ridden on (Eurostar, Thalys, most of various railway companies in Switzerland) the prices were pretty comparable to Amtrak corridor trains.

I beg to disagree. YEs there are fares that are at the same level as NEC. But typically one can find a ticket to get from London To Paris by Eurostar at 75-80% of what it costs to get from New York to Washington on Acela. Each time traveled from Brussels to Paris and back on Thalys I managed to get a ticket for aorund $140 or so, and sometimes even in First Class. And none of these were terribly advance purchase, perhaps at most purchased a week before the travel in case of Eurostart.The Thalys ones were atmost one day ahead of travel.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

but did you convert those prices into $ and not euros or pounds

 

[the_traveler]

I can get from KIN to BOS for $16-18 and KIN-NYP for ~$40. They both would be comparable as between many countries in Europe. I don't think it's more expensive!

Does it take longer - yes! But the US alone is many times bigger than ALL of Europe!

 

[bretton88]

Amtrak is more expensive than eurostar. I can take Eurostar from London to Paris for only 55$ while a regional from washington-NYP costs 72$. The first class in the eurostar costs 153$ and comes with a meal, so its comparable to the Acela first class which is... 233$! So Eurostar is cheaper. Though Amtrak is not horribly expensive.

 

[jis]

but did you convert those prices into $ and not euros or pounds

Of course I converted them to $s. Well actually I paid all of them in $s since they were billed through my credit card in $s. Please remember that I travel in at least half a dozen countries each year. If I started making silly mistakes like that I'd be in real trouble

 

[jis]

Does it take longer - yes! But the US alone is many times bigger than ALL of Europe!

Really? Many times bigger? Including Eastern Europe all the way to the Urals? I suggest you go and take another look at your world map

 

[Chris J.]

Amtrak is more expensive than eurostar. I can take Eurostar from London to Paris for only 55$ while a regional from washington-NYP costs 72$. The first class in the eurostar costs 153$ and comes with a meal, so its comparable to the Acela first class which is... 233$! So Eurostar is cheaper. Though Amtrak is not horribly expensive.

You can; but if you want to go to Paris tomorrow from London it's over $200; and that regional is $72 tomorrow. So are you compare a very cheap, booked well in advance Eurostar fare with a normal Regional fare?

 

[jis]

You can; but if you want to go to Paris tomorrow from London it's over $200; and that regional is $72 tomorrow. So are you compare a very cheap, booked well in advance Eurostar fare with a normal Regional fare?

True. But comparing a Regional with a Eurostar is like comparing a bullock cart with an automobile almost :lol: I can also take the bus to Washington for much cheaper than the Regional too

 

[Greg]

I've read discussions which state that the population density in the U.S. east of the Mississippi River is very similar to the population density in Europe. I think high speed rail would work great in this country. We just need to change the mindset of the people who don't know about the benefits of rail.

example: I was in JAX on sunday meeting a friend at an Applebee's...I indicated to the waitress that I had to leave because I had a 5:30 train to catch. (#98)...she said, "Really? where do you catch a train around here? I didn't even know we had trains!"

 

[TVRM610]

You can; but if you want to go to Paris tomorrow from London it's over $200; and that regional is $72 tomorrow. So are you compare a very cheap, booked well in advance Eurostar fare with a normal Regional fare?

True. But comparing a Regional with a Eurostar is like comparing a bullock cart with an automobile almost :lol: I can also take the bus to Washington for much cheaper than the Regional too

Might I ask how in the world you come to that comparison?

 

[PetalumaLoco]

The OP needs to give us some numbers before we can understand what they're complaining about.

Are they looking at coach or sleeper? Did they end up getting a high bucket price? Low bucket?

The OP is probably gone forever now. Should hang around and get some real opinions about their assertions instead of us flogging this to death.

 

[Rumpled]

I'd say things are totally comparable and Amtrak is not overpriced; at least NEC compared to Eurostar. I've never been to either place, so no direct comparison.

I just picked 2/10 (happens to be a few weeks out and is my sister's birthday) for a trip London to Paris at about 232 miles or so this compares to 243 or so (couldn't find timetable mileage so I use google maps, walking for London to Paris) for New York to Washington DC.

Eurostar $55.50 to $104.50 for nonflexible Standard. This is direct at 2h25 min.

Amtrak NEC $49-103 and it's not nonflexible. Not direct 3h 25 min.

Amtrak Bus. class goes to $85 (still flexible by Eurostar def)

Eurostar Leisure Select goes to $109 for nonflex and $203.50 for semiflex; this does seem to include meals.

Acela gets a good time comparison at 2h 42 min and Amtrak's rules seem to fit Eurostar's fully flexible definition.

Cost? $133-155 on Acela. $203 for semiflex or $251 for fully flex in Standard on Eurostar. Bumping a class is more.

So, the NEC Regionals and Eurostar are about equal on cost for the cheapest with Amtrak getting better flexibility and Eurostar better time.

I'd think Acela about beats Eurostar considering Eurostar about doubles the cost for the same ticketing flexibility and time is similar.

 

[jis]

Might I ask how in the world you come to that comparison?

Well, the :lol: is there to indicate that the comparison is a bit overstated for effect, in case such things pass by you unnoticed .

But more seriously comparing fares of two trains one of which covers 306 miles in 2 hours and 15 mins and another which covers 225 miles in 2 hours a 45 mins is a bit odd. NEC has a long way to go before it manages to catch up in terms of speed with Eurostar, or any of the other European or Japanese, or Taiwanese, or Korean, or Chinese HSRs. It might be fairer to compare NEC fares with routes like the ECML in the UK or some of the service on upgraded legacy routes in France or Germany.

 

[TVRM610]

Might I ask how in the world you come to that comparison?

Well, the :lol: is there to indicate that the comparison is a bit overstated for effect, in case such things pass by you unnoticed .

But more seriously comparing fares of two trains one of which covers 306 miles in 2 hours and 15 mins and another which covers 225 miles in 2 hours a 45 mins is a bit odd. NEC has a long way to go before it manages to catch up in terms of speed with Eurostar, or any of the other European or Japanese, or Taiwanese, or Korean, or Chinese HSRs. It might be fairer to compare NEC fares with routes like the ECML in the UK or some of the service on upgraded legacy routes in France or Germany.

Haha.. well I had hoped you were not completely serious!

However I disagree.... both are trains that travel at higher speed (yes I know the Eurostar wins) linking major cities that are within 2-300 miles apart from each other. Both link these two major cities in approx. 2.5 hours. I think its fair to compare them.

Now if you asked me which train I'd rather take.. sure the Eurostar. Ha. But to say they are not comparable I'm not so sure.

 

[jis]

Haha.. well I had hoped you were not completely serious!
However I disagree.... both are trains that travel at higher speed (yes I know the Eurostar wins) linking major cities that are within 2-300 miles apart from each other. Both link these two major cities in approx. 2.5 hours. I think its fair to compare them.

Now if you asked me which train I'd rather take.. sure the Eurostar. Ha. But to say they are not comparable I'm not so sure.

In that sense yes, that is a way to spin it, when there is no hope of spinning it positively any other way

More realistically if Acelas operated at Eurostar speed it would get from New York to Washington DC in 1hr and 40mins. What do you suppose Amtrak would try to charge for such a service should such ever come to being? Conversely, if Eurostar ran at Acela speeds it would take 3hrs and 45mins, which in Europe would not be worthy of a special mention even. All in all it is almost like it is to be expected that the Concorde should have about the same fare as the run of the mill Airbus. :-/

Mind you I am not specifically criticizing Amtrak or such. It is just the overall way things work in the US these days does not appear to be conducive to producing systems like the modern HSR systems. It is not like this is the way things were in the US always. Afterall, in the same US we were able to build the interstate system which is the envy of the world. I am hoping that things are changing for the better.

Of course the other big difference is that one of them crosses an international border involving customs and immigration clearance. This does considerably constrain how flexible the service could be in terms of additional stops on the way while satisfying Her Majesty's Royal Customs and Immigration Services requirements. It is also potentially more open to the possibility of terrorist attacks given the honking big and visible target that it runs through. But those are all separate matters.

 

[DesertRat]

After returning from Europe, I am so saddened by the exorbitant cost of rail travel in the US. I hate air travel, as it is just so uncomfortable. But looking at the prices of riding the rails (and taking much longer), it is really the only way to travel in the US. What is wrong with this country?

Please do come back and give us more details. Like, coach or first class? I mean, it's easy to do a hit and run post.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I mean, it's easy to do a hit and run post.

thats all they do they come on here say how there trip was a trip from hell but have no details or the story clearly has holes and they never come back. i bet this guy is sitting in front of his monitor right now laughing while we fight with each other.

 

[Bigval109]

Also remember that rail travel in Europe typically receives government subsidies.

And so it does in the US - very heavily.

Well that depends on what heavily mean. There rarely is enough funds for upkeep, let alone new equipment, or fuel. Since the US is many times larger than any other country that people tend to compare rail service with we would need serious investment in rail to make it what we would like it to be. People tend to talk about what congress has given over 30 years. But they spend that in one year in highways and the airlines. When there is an emergency and the planes can't fly then we see how funds starved Amtrak had been. But we want Amtrak to take up the slack.Lots of complains but very little money where the mouth is. If you want the best you have to pay for it. Just try to get an airline to function on what Amtrak gets, yet Amtrak manages to pull it off each and every year. No transportation company does more with less money that Amtrak. And they do it with 30yr old plus equipment and things are rolling as we speak.